Published: Thursday, 15th July, 2010 7:25am

Sisters split up in Dunfermline schools fiasco

A DUNFERMLINE mum has spoken of the huge upset caused by her two young daughters not being able to attend the same school in Dunfermline's Eastern Expansion (DEX).

Lorna Brocklesby hit out at the "psychological and emotional damage" resulting from the chaotic school provision policy followed by Fife Council over a period of years.

Finally the go-ahead has been given for a third primary school in the area (Carnegie) which is being built in Halbeath but will not be ready until next year.

These delays have resulted in pupils having to be bused to Inverkeithing and that is where Lorna's four-year-old daughter, Betsy, will have to go when she starts school.

Big sister, eight-year-old Minnie, is "thriving" at Duloch Primary and Betsy had been looking forward to joining her there in August but recent changes to the catchment areas have left her out in the cold, meaning the sisters will have to go to different schools.

Mrs Brocklesby, of Fieldfare View, appealed against the decision preventing Betsy from going to Duloch but it was rejected along with that from five other families.

Mum Lorna faces a difficult school run each morning as Minnie (left) and Betsy will go to different schools.

MP Thomas Docherty has called for the council to show more compassion and remember the "human face" behind the cases it deals with.

Mrs Brocklesby has written to head of education Ken Greer, saying, "Although my family and I are just a statistic to you and your department, I feel I have to write to let you know the devastation Fife Council has brought on my family since September 2009.

"Our children are being forced to go to different schools because of something that is not their fault yet we have never received an apology nor have we ever had anyone come and explain to our children why this is happening to them.

"Worst of all is that everyone we have contacted about this turns their back and blames other people.

"So the lesson that my family have learned from all of this is that if you are a good, law-abiding family that works hard, pays for everything, attends school every day and arrives on time you get punished. Well done Fife Council.

"My daughters, Minnie and Betsy, will never experience going to primary school together because of your department.

"We will never have a school photo of our children together.

"The uniforms of Minnie's that Betsy was so looking forward to wearing (and saving us some money) are being given away and double the expense is being spent on two separate uniforms.

"Mr Greer, we are not a rich family and cannot afford to take this to court so unfortunately we have to 'put up and shut up'.

"I cannot reiterate enough how much psychological and emotional damage this whole process has put on us as a family and we also wish to receive an explanation as to why there was no transitional period of losing sibling priority, especially when we don't even have the choice of sending both our children to Carnegie this year.

"We as a family await your reply and hope that it can give us some satisfaction in allowing us all to move on and deal with this awful situation we are being forced into."

Mr Docherty, who met Mr Greer recently, said, "I think Fife Council should put a human face on these cases.

"How is a parent supposed to explain to their young child why they can't go to school with their brother or sister?"

Fife Council's school provision mishaps in DEX saw them sell off land earmarked for a third primary in DEX because it was not thought it would be required, then later realised it was and announced it would be built on St Columba's High School playing fields.

This caused an outcry among the pupils and parents there and the council was forced to scrap the plans and go back to the drawing board.

Fife Council education officer Alan Watson said, "We are sorry for the distress that this situation has caused Mr and Mrs Brocklesby.

"Kenneth Greer recently wrote to the parents to explain why an interim arrangement was not possible before the opening of the new Carnegie School building, whereby siblings in the former Duloch catchment could be prioritised.

"There are insufficient places in Duloch School to accommodate additional children from outwith the catchment area.

"We understand and regret the impact of change of catchment areas has on families.

"However, any other appraoch would have impacted negatively on other families in the area."

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Have your say. Post a comment on this article.

Elsie
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 09:55
Comment: 12400

They're not being "forced to go do different schools" at all. You can move your eldest daughter to your new catchment school. It's not fair that your youngest should get priority over someone who lives closer to Duloch if you don't live in the catchment anymore. Harsh but true, sorry. For everyone who is unhappy at their predicament there are plenty of others with a story to tell on the flipside. I would be unhappy at your daughter taking the place of mine when we live just five minutes' walk from the school and are unlikely to get in. That would also be unfair - the whole thing is a mess from every angle.
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Elsie
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 10:20
Comment: 12401

Apologies, I missed the fact that the eldest child still has to go to Duloch for one year until the new school building opens. It still remains that if all these younger siblings who live outside the catchment had been allowed to go to Duloch this year, it would have taken away six places from children who live very close to the school. I wonder if there is the chance that in future years all P1 places are taken up by siblings who live within the catchment area, never mind including those outwith.
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Pamela
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 10:29
Comment: 12402

Well clearly Elsie you aren't in the postion that Lorna and my family along with others have found themselves in through no fault of our own! Your comments are very flip and lets not forget, these are young vulnerable children who we're dealing with that don't understand why they are being denied going to school together. Why do you think that it's acceptable to uproot a young child from an established school and class taking them away from the frienships they've created and enjoyed over the past four years? You miss the point completely. Sibling priority should have been paramount regardless and if that had meant taking a place from you at the school then so be it. You can hardly describe the situation that we find ourselves in as a mess when it doesn't affect you directly. You should put a little more thought into your comments before airing them, it's people like you who are equally as guilty as Fife Council with your "doesn't affect me" attitude.
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Oracle
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 12:33
Comment: 12407

Elsie - that's very narrow-minded of you. You don't seem to understand that these families WERE in catchment a year and a half ago, and now they are not. You don't say where you stay, but the Duloch catchment *could* have been sliced up such that YOU were outside of catchment - I am sure you would have a different attitude then. But, be that as it may, you completely overlook the simple fact that these poor families were given NO OPTION to keep their young children together. Fife Council have told them where their children must go, and the fact that this is to different schools for (at least) a year doesn't seem to bother them - or you!! And then, as Pamela pointed out, they need to uproot young children from friendships and a school community that they know. But you think that is OK? Would you want that for YOUR children, through no fault, or indeed, control or your own? By the way, I think you will find that there ARE in-catchment children that are not being permitted a place a Duloch (you are one of the lucky ones, clearly). And so there are quite a number of families let down by the Council and their lack of forward planning. Given this, I would suggest to you that the worst possible decision would be to split up families who have already started their journey through school, rather than letting down (another) family who has yet to start this journey. There are no right solutions here, but there are certainly degrees of WRONG decisions - and this is a high-magnitude WRONG decision. But, Elsie, you obviously disagree - and as a parent, I suggest this is very much to your shame.
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Faberge
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 14:05
Comment: 12408

Why does this [toilet] paper continue to call Duloch Park the Dunfermline Eastern Expansion (DEX). The fact that the reporter has to actually abbreviate the name and thus uses more column inches than is necessary shows how stupid this paper is. If the reporter actually takes a drive to Duloch Park it is clearly marked as so by the council and Highways Agency in road signs - so it is an official name.
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Tommy Tucker
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 14:21
Comment: 12410

The houses in Duloch are very new. The people living in these houses can't have lived there for that long either. So to say the kids are being treated unfairly is not entirely true when you think of the disruption it caused them when you moved there from another area, taking them out of a school they were already settled in. Or perhaps you could have done your homework and looked into schooling before you moved to the area?!

Where are all these people coming from? They surely must be from Edinburgh and outwith Dunfermline otherwise there would already be allocated school places.

I'm sick of hearing continual moaning about this and an over-crowded Forth bridge, especially from Duloch residents who think they must have priority over everyone else in the town. Go back to where you came from if you're not happy, muppets.
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DC2000
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 14:59
Comment: 12412

Hey Tommy Tucker! I don't think Duloch residents "think they have priority over everyone else in the town". Duloch school is in Duloch, so is Carnegie, and this looks like an intra-Duloch problem to me, and nobody is talking about taking places from indigenous people like your good self. You might not like the "incomers" to Duloch/Dunfermline, but at least they bring investment and keep the town alive and growing!

For what its worth, I sympathise with the lady in this story because I wouldn't want my family split up like that, where-ever I come from.
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Ex-fifer
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 15:02
Comment: 12413

lets try and give some constructive help here. It is not clear why the children are being refused places at Duloch. is it because Fife Council are keeping to the max 25 class size set out in government guidelines? The legal limit on a P1 class size is still 33. If they appeal to the Sheriff the legal position is clearcut - if you do a search on Bailii then you will find reference to two cases in East Lothian in 2008 where the Sheriff basically said that.
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Hazel
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 15:27
Comment: 12415

if one child is older than the other then the chances are they dont mix at school anyway and they have diff frineds and they are kids after all one minute they will be upset the next a new best frined will be on the scene and before you know it high school and if its anything like the school I went to then worry !!!!!
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CrazyTaxi
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 16:10
Comment: 12416

hahaha! i'm with hazel 100%. who cares about the kids???!!! and crazy parents that think its normal to have their kids in the same school!!! who wants to see them togtehr at school concerts and things like that??! who cares about having them togethr in school photos??! who cares about parents who need to be in two places at the same time to pick up their kids, or drop them off?? and what crazy parent would ever hand down school uniforms?? why would parents want to keep their children together??!

after all, like hazel says, they're just kids after all!!

Come on! What kind of a country are we living in?
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Tommy Tucker
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 16:25
Comment: 12417

Hey DC2000 - Duloch residents don't contribute to Dunfermline's economy by way of "keeping the town alive and growing." Most woork AND spend their money in Edinburgh, hence the state of Dunfermline High Street!!!!!
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Gillian
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 16:41
Comment: 12418

Tommy Tucker, there are a lot of Dunfermline-born people living in Duloch too. They're not all 'incomers'. I think the bus for Carnegie at Inverkeithing actually leaves from Duloch school. Of course it's a shame to split kids up but distance seems fair in a crowded area. Kids are hardy - it's more difficult for the parents.
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DC2000
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 17:22
Comment: 12419

Hey Tommy Tucker - Bit of a chip on your shoulder, eh? Is that why you have no sympathy for this poor lady?

I think you'll find that Duloch residents DO spend money in Dunfermline, they are not all incomers, they do pay council tax in Fife (not Edinburgh), they do spend money in the revamped Kingsgate, they do buy their shopping in Asda and Tesco (bet you go there too :-))... I've heard they even employ people there too!
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Aileen Dover
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 18:09
Comment: 12420

Tommy Tucker has a point. Dunfermline's Eastern Expansion is a joke and has been ill-thought-out by Fife Council. It started when they made a mess of the Hyundai situation (through nu-Labour's goons) and continued with allowing further new-build despite no new schools, or even a decent road network so that their parents can get to work that wasn't available in Fife.

Personally I wouldn't live down there, for many reasons the place is a mess and in my opinion the people who moved in only have themselves to blame. You wanted cheap housing - you get what you pay for. Live with it or move away!!!!
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Dulochandproud
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 18:30
Comment: 12423

After reading some of the comments on here it has made me angry and have felt the need to reply. I stay in Duloch and I am proud of where I stay, it may not be everyones cup of tea - like yours Hazel, but please keep your catty comments about staying in Duloch to yourself!!! Who the hell are you to comment about cheap housing?? Where do you stay?? Oh you didnt mention it!!! Every new community has its problems, in Dulochs case its schooling.

In response to Tommy Tucker, I partially agree that many people would look at schools when they move house, but there are many cases where couples do not have kids yet, or in Lorna's case, the catchment area was favourable to them over a year ago, but not now. Your comments reagrding Edinburgh people moving to Dunfermline are unfair, I am Dunfermline born and I know Lorna is also. If you have an issue with edinburgh people moving over then this is surely not the forum to express your anger.

Lets not forget the story, there are a lot of families let down by Fife Council and why not use the press to let us hear about their stories. It highlights that there are still ongoing problems with the current catchment situation especially when the new school is not built yet. If you were to understand the article in its context, Lorna is correct on many points, like cost of new uniforms for each of her daughters and not having the opportunity to pass them down. Who on here never had a hand me down uniform or experienced walking to school with your brother or sister??

Maybe we dont want to continually hear about these stories, but if it was your kids, that would be you in the paper , not Lorna.
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Gillian
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 19:11
Comment: 12424

Duloch's a lovely area of the town to live in - it has a strong sense of family and community and we know all our neighbours. There are lots of things activities and things to do and we've made lots of friends here. We moved here in 2000, from the town centre, without children back then. We had no way of knowing how the schools situation would turn out ten years ago, nor the rate of building that would go on since, and neither did anyone else. So it's not 'our fault' for moving here.

Splitting up siblings is really sad (not to mention awkward), but I can also see that if non-catchment siblings took priority over catchment area children, this could be viewed as unfair to children living in the catchment area. Living further away from the school in an area with such a high density of children, you risk being cut off when new catchment lines are drawn up as a new school is built. Either way, people are left disappointed, angry and dejected - no-one wins.
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Polkadot
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 22:01
Comment: 12427

As Gillian stated - Duloch has existed for many years now and the provision for this area in terms of GP's, Dentists and Schools is appalling, and the recent changing of the catchment boundaries has been a disaster. Fundamentally Lorna and her family previously resided within the Duloch catchment and I do believe that Lorna and the other families should have retained their sibling priority, even if this does mean that families in the 'new' catchment (without siblings) are disadvantaged. There were other ways in which the progressive programme of enrollment into Carnegie could have been implemented but that would have required creative thinking which Fife Council clearly lack. What I don't understand is why Fife Council don't apply the same rules throughout Dunfermline, and why some families who were never within a catchment area in the first place but chose a school in pretentious preference are given places for siblings on appeal and thus have increased the 'optimum' P1 class size. If this can be done in some schools in Dunfermline why could it not be done at Duloch?
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parklife
Unregistered User
Jul 15, 23:28
Comment: 12430

Oh my God! As CrazyTaxi said, what kind of a country are we living in?

We're always told by the powers that be, of whatever colour, that the family is the most important building block of society. What a shame that Fife Council - and quite a few of you commenting here - don't think so.

OK, this is not exactly tearing families apart. But if we, as a society, can't even manage to keep wee kids together in the same primary school, then where do we start drawing the line? This is a tiny, thin end of a wedge, but wedge it is. It is hardly a great example of promoting inclusion and togetherness, is it?
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Storm
Unregistered User
Jul 16, 02:57
Comment: 12432

Why dont these people think firstly of their children before moving to what they think is a 'posher than anywhere else' place? Take what you get with that attitude,,,,,,,i couldnt care if id lived in a sewer when i had my kids an raised them on my own, we were all that mattered an now i have 2 very bright, very good law abiding kids who have never been in one bit of bother! see if you can all manage that then! Yes they were always clean and healthy, our area was really good ,good and bad as is everywhere, we make of life what we are handed,,,,well some of us do,,,so just demand, demand , demand,,,well tough, take what you get in life an then shoosh!
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Anti-Storm
Unregistered User
Jul 16, 10:12
Comment: 12436

Storm, there is more to life than having clean law abiding children, but it does say a lot about your low set priorities if you think that is all that matters. I give a lot to Fife Council, more than I wager you and your two [clean?] children ever have and will do, so crawl back to your sewer now, go on, bye.
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Tommy Tucker
Unregistered User
Jul 16, 10:23
Comment: 12437

Anti-Storm - it's people like you that cause so many of the problems we as tax-payers have to endure due to your 'I'm better than you so I deserve better than you' attitude. It's pathetic, and typical of the MAJORITY of people in the Duloch area. How can you possibly know Storm's circumstances? What a prize t*at!
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KanDK
Unregistered User
Jul 16, 10:57
Comment: 12438

Tommy Tucker, Storm and anyone else who has a dislike for Duloch residents.

How would you feel if it were your kids?

For the record I am a Duloch resident, I work in Dunfermline spend all my money in Dunfermline! Moved here 5 yrs ago from village just along the road, when my kids were but babies and the promise of new schools to accommodate our children all sounded good. I now have a son at Duloch and his siblings will attend Carnegie. We have accepted that there isn't a lot we can do about it, it will be his 3rd school by the time he reaches P4, through no fault of our's. We haven't moved house, but been in 3 different catchments!

I don't think Duloch residents think they are better than anyone else, we just want what's best for our kids and if you are any different than that, then you're either not a parent and your comments are completely invalid or you're pretty selfish.
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Elsie
Unregistered User
Jul 16, 11:11
Comment: 12439

I just wanted to reply to Pamela and Oracle. I thought you read a lot more into what I said that I intended and were a bit harsh. The assumption that we got a place isn't true, for starters. I have two children and if they ended up having to go to two different schools it wouldn't really affect them too much because they'd be in different years anyway. My own brother went to a different primary school to me when I was young. Of course family is the most important thing! Children, like someone else said, are adaptable, and plenty of people move houses or have to be in two places at once (one nursery, a different school). To suggest I should feel shameful is a spiteful suggestion to make. You have to work with what life gives you and make the best of situations that you can't control. It may be impractical to you but you should try to pass on positive feelings to your children - make them excited about whatever is happening instead of scared. I really, really sympathise with you and I'm not cold-hearted, I just think you have to be pragmatic and do what is best after the appeals failed. Children make new friends easily - I moved schools in P5 and it was a big adventure! I hate how words get twisted and assumptions are made. Of course the school situation's a mess for everyone concerned (and we ARE affected, contrary to your assumption). Do what's best for your family now given the situation, whether this be keeping them at different schools or moving one child. Of course neither is ideal but try to be positive. Sorry if that sounds flippant. And I hope everything works out for you in the longrun - all the best.
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concerned
Unregistered User
Jul 16, 11:16
Comment: 12440

OH so there is still some money out there the council can use to build new school .Why does townhill not get new school instead of extension then.
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AntiBigot
Unregistered User
Jul 16, 13:53
Comment: 12448

As a Duloch resident myself, I'm wondering why a lot of people would actually bother taking the time to comment on this very real and unfair situation when clearly a number of you have no concern at all other than to vent off a lot of ill and bigoted feeling - "Tommy Tucker" you've a huge chip on your shoulder and it's my observation that you are of very low intelligence when "muppets" and “t*at” are the best that you can come out with, perhaps a BNP supporter with that line of thinking? Why shouldn't people be concerned about families, values and society. It's because of thinking and attitudes like yours that society is going to the dogs. "Storm" maybe I misread this article but I don't believe that I saw anything in it which relates to personal hygiene, sewers or posh areas, not sure what point you were trying to make but perhaps it was to gain a pat on the back for bringing up your kids??? Aileen Dover, I wouldn't exactly call Duloch "cheap housing" and if you don't live here then why are you commenting on an issue that doesn't affect you in any way, shape or form? Perhaps a little jealousy that you can't afford the "cheap housing" that Duloch has to offer and a little too much time on your hands?

A lot of the comments on here are posted by time wasters with nothing better to do than think up ways to be acidic, spiteful and uncaring. People affected by this issue WERE in the catchment when their houses were bought but sadly Fife Council decided to move the goal posts mid game forcing siblings to go to different schools. Hardly fair. This isn't about a preference for one school over another, this is about wanting to keep siblings together. I don't know what kind of families a lot of you are raising out there, in "Storm's" case a clean one, but mine is a close one with children who want to be schooled together so I can absolutely see Lorna's point and feel greatly for her. Keep up the fight Lorna. What goes around comes around and a lot of you would do well to remember that!

I've no doubt a few of you will feel compelled to post having read my observations but perhaps your energies would be better channelled if you actually commented on the issue at hand which is "the Dunfermline schools fiasco".
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Aileen Dover
Unregistered User
Jul 16, 15:33
Comment: 12452

Typical response above from yet another 'snob' Duloch resident who claims that anyone who isn't in agreement with them is wrong and therefore jealous, spiteful, poor, etc etc.

Not that it's any of your business, but I live in the west end of Dunfermline, a smart 4 bed detached, and have done all my life. My kids (yes I have three) are all well school'ed (together) and as such I have no direct issue with the above. However, I am suitably experienced / entitled to pass comment, as after all this is an open forum about a story that affects us ALL as tax-payers. So, yes I will reply to your bigotted post as after all I have nothing better to do, do I?!

Anyway, I stand by my comments above whereby I state "you get what you pay for". You wanted CHEAP HOUSING (yes Duloch houses are cheap, very cheap in comparison to similar areas in Central Scotland, in particular within commuting distance of Edinburgh) then you WILL surely get what you pay for.

Aileen
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AntiBigot
Unregistered User
Jul 16, 16:17
Comment: 12454

Aileen Dover, what school did YOU go to. As far as I'm aware "bigoted" uses this spelling unlike your posting of "bigotted". Apologies, that's just the "snob" in me that wanted to point that out.

You are in a very privileged position having three children schooled together which further begs belief that you can't understand why any other parent in the country (Lorna included) wouldn't want the same for their children.

No it's none of my business where you stay and neither have I asked that question, I'm sorry that you felt the need to tell me about your "smart 4 bed detached house". Perhaps that's the snob in you?

This feature isn't about housing it's about schooling yet you steam in with your unhelpful comments as below;

"Personally I wouldn't live down there, for many reasons the place is a mess and in my opinion the people who moved in only have themselves to blame. You wanted cheap housing - you get what you pay for. Live with it or move away!!!!"

Pretty acidic wouldn’t you agree. No one is asking you to move here and neither are you being asked for your critique on affordable housing and I'm sure the majority of Duloch residents if asked, would be in complete disagreement with you about our community being a mess.

I take offence to being accused of referring to you as poor, please re read my posting properly, nowhere has that been suggested but it is my opinion that there are a small number of you who are using this forum or more accurately abusing it by posting non relevant and bigoted feedback, almost spoiling for a fight if you could.

Again, comment on the issue that's been raised "the Dunfermline schools fiasco" instead of venting off steam about housing that you have nothing but negative views about.
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Anti-AntiBigot
Unregistered User
Jul 16, 23:53
Comment: 12461

I think you're both as bad as each other, although 'AntiBigot' should get a life, I mean picking up poor Aileen for one typo was desperate! Also, you did imply she was too poor to afford a house in Duloch, so again Aileen was right when she said you referred to her as poor! Maybe you should go back to school and learn to read!!!!!
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AntiBigot
Unregistered User
Jul 17, 00:08
Comment: 12463

Anti-AntiBigot, did you have a point to make about the school issue?
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Anti-AntiBigot
Unregistered User
Jul 17, 00:39
Comment: 12464

You're quick to point out other people's faults, yet when the same is done to you, you get all defensive. Are you perhaps suffering from some sort of psychological disorder? If so, I'd get help if I were you!

If it makes you feel better, then I'm with Aileen on this one. Take care x
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AntiBigot
Unregistered User
Jul 17, 01:02
Comment: 12465

And your point about schooling in Duloch is...........................
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******
Unregistered User
Jul 17, 12:37
Comment: 12469

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livi
Unregistered User
Jul 17, 12:37
Comment: 12470

Just wanted to post a comment to say that the situation a handful of families are being forced into is unacceptable and unfair. Regardless of where you live, you should not be forced to split your family up to attend different primary schools. We are also affected by this problem and yes we are being upbeat about it for the sake of our kids however it quite simply should never have happened, it has been a major error on behalf of the council and well done to Lorna and her family for bringing this matter to the attention of others. Also, the original catchment area for Duloch school was vast, that was a huge mistake too, it took in more than just the new houses at Duloch, it included Braemar Gardens and the houses there and also at Halbeath. So we do not live in Duloch but were in the catchment for Duloch until the council made a decision to change the catchment areas. We are therefore no longer in the catchment area which means my two other children will not get into the same school as their sibling. Unfair. No forward planning from the council.
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Hank3
Unregistered User
Jul 17, 14:58
Comment: 12473

I cannot believe the vitriol of non-Duloch residents in the comments to this article.

The simple fact is any such vitriol should be directed towards the council who have created such a shambles in the 1st place. If there had been forethought amongst the great and good in the education department and they had chosen not to sell off the land to developers then this would not have been a problem at this time (but it was always going to be a problem at some stage with the different developments progressing at different pace!)

Many people, including my wife and myself, moved to Duloch (yes from Edinburgh!) when there was the promise of new schools being built to accomodate the increase in the school population. This doesn't just affect families of children of primary school age but also nursery school age. It also affects families in other areas where nursery and primary places are taken up by Duloch families who can't get their children into their 1st choice of Duloch...this is a DUNFERMLINE problem and people should see it just as that and cut out the petty attacks on honest, hard working families who are after all only looking out for their children...every child deserves the best start in education regardless of where they live.

Storm, Aileen Dover and Tommy Tucker hang your heads in shame
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Dexy Midnight Runner
Unregistered User
Jul 18, 12:41
Comment: 12482

This whole attitude of not being informed or kept upto date is utter rubbish! The parents who are in the position have had ample opportunity to take part in consultation AND influence the outcome.

It is clear that only once a decision is made, parents feel they can claim the sympathy card via the Dunfermline Press forum.

The situation is not good, however get involved and represent yourselves before the hangman has made his cut!
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Katt
Unregistered User
Jul 18, 23:20
Comment: 12490

To all of you writing your ignorant and bigoted comments about those who live in Duloch - you bring great shame upon yourselves.

Whilst in fact the majority of those living in Duloch are actually Fifers, why should it matter if others living there come from elsewhere? Talk of 'incomers' etc only makes it sound as if people who are born and bred in Dunfermline are racist/bigotted or at least very unpleasant.

I dont believe is the case for the vast majority of Fifers. It must just be you!

Taking all that aside = the fact that you chose to display these views to belittle the distress felt by parents about their children's schooling only further goes to prove how truly unpleasant you are!

Hang your heads in shame! Lets just hope that if you have children yourselves they are fortunate enough not to pick up on their parents' bigotry or lets hope that they get to go to a good school where their education might allow them a chance to outshine the bigotry they get at home.
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******
Unregistered User
Jul 19, 13:08
Comment: 12495

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TheDEXExpress
Jul 19, 17:53
Comment: 12505

As someone living in the Masterton catchment whose children will not get a place there due to our distance from the school, I can sympathise with many of the points made above. I do agree with those who suggest that parents need to make the best of the situation, as we are doing ourselves. The bottom line is that nothing will change for most folk, so there is limited value in getting angry, understandable though that might be. The alternative school my kids will go to is fantastic and we are very happy with the education they will get there.

Having said that, when this issue first emerged, I thought that it would be fairer for kids outwith catchment whose siblings were already at Masterton to get a place ahead of kids - such as my own - whose family had no exisiting connection with the school. So I would have hoped that pupils in the situation that Ms Brocklesby's family finds itself in regarding Duloch - where they were in catchment but are now out of it - would have been kept together with their siblings in one school. Yes, worse things can happen to a child than to go to a different school than their sibling(s), but it is nevertheless something that should be avoided wherever possible.

It's true, as one commenter above says, that there have been a fair number of consultation meetings at the various schools in the area in the last few years. However, I would not agree with the assertion that parents have had any influence on the outcome. Unfortunately, very fundamental mistakes were made in the early stages of planning for education provision in the area and officials and councillors have been in damage limitation mode ever since. While I have some sympathy for them, I am not confident that the same mistakes will be avoided in future as there does not seem to have been any attempt to lead from experience.
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Oh Crumbs
Unregistered User
Jul 20, 12:35
Comment: 12518

Handbags

Who's better Duloch or The rest of Dunfermline

There's only one way to find out.............................FIGHT!!!
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DulochJournalist
Unregistered User
Jul 20, 19:37
Comment: 12522

Ok... when I first read the story I could swore it was about a human being upset that her two young daughters were upset, because of what has been a rather shambolic situation, not just in Duloch and Masterton, but really mirror across most of the south Fife area.

But when you read some of the comments on here, it's almost a seperate story in itself, of bitter rivalry/hatred/jelousy/resentment what ever you wish to call it, most of which is rather poorly informed.

Yes Duloch is the newer side of Dunfermline, and new large scale projects always bring issues, not just with primaries but look at the huge strain on the secondary schools round the area. And Yes the houses are cheap, tends to happen when they're either that size or in an area of some reputation. But cheap housing is needed, now more than ever with the economic and job problems in Scotland, but this doesn't mean its better. I mean look at the developments in Abbeyview, the new flats might look nicer but that doesn't mean they're built better, and most sane people no that, its just a place to live that you can afford.

This pety fighting on both sides is rather sad, Yes a lot of people who live in Duloch will work over in Edinburgh, as many do throughout Dunfermline and other towns like Rosyth and Dalgety Bay, there just isn't the jobs round here anymore. But the taxes and money they spend on mass will be in Dunfermline, if anything cause its makes sense to not have to travel 18 miles for milk. But even if they commuted to Glasgow everyday what does it matter? The days of a townsfolk living, working, shopping and raising a family all within a tiny community are long gone, you just need to get over it.

My heart goes out to Lorna, as it can't be easy dealing something that no one in power really prepared for (end of the day they just care about the money floating around), but I think it would be worse if she came on here and saw the level of bickering I doubt even her 8-year-old would stoop too, all because of where she lives.

Attacking or Insulting someone for where they live, whether you claim its cause its a poor town or a snob town is just flat out discrimination, esspecially when its clear your reacting on instinct.

I was raised in Dunfermline over near Pittencrief Park, and now live up in Masterton... but reading some the comments, makes me wish I was back at University in Stoke-on-Trent, least down there they didn't get angry over a couple of roads and concrete blocks that serve a purpose.
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******
Unregistered User
Jul 21, 21:37
Comment: 12539

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inverkeithing mum
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 23:47
Comment: 12617

I am a resident of Inverkeithing and have a child at the school and I would just like to make a couple of comments about the Duloch school problem from a different perspective. We gave space for the Carnegie school last year and have promised to give them 2 classrooms this year, on the proviso that the new Duloch school be completed by the end of that and we will get our classrooms back in 2011. At the moment a music room is having to be turned into a temporary classroom in order to accommodate the Carnegie pupils, although it is Inverkeithing p3 pupils who will be using this room.

If all goes to plan, it is a problem for only 2 years.

However, reading about it here has made me very nervous that Fife Council seem so incompetent and I am VERY nervous that the new school will not be completed due to 'unforeseen circumstances'. Inverkeithing Primary really cannot accommodate another year of Carnegie children. What is going to happen then? I fear that the Duloch parents, who are so vociferous about the rights of their children, will not accept yet another venue for their children's schooling and Inverkeithing will be forced to keep them for another year and 3 classrooms worth of children.

I decided at the offset that offering space to this community in need was the right thing to do, indeed the right thing to teach our children to do. I fear, though, that the good people of Inverkeithing will end up being taken advantage of in the end.

I am upset to read rumours that the Duloch parents were horrified not just that their children had to be bused to school - but bused to an area they deemed unworthy. Perhaps that is why there are comments here which appear to come from people with 'chips on their shoulders'. Bringing out the old 'I pay more taxes than you' was in particular, hitting pretty low! As it happens, Inverkeithing has a wide mix of people with different income brackets and professions!

I just wanted to point out that the Inverkeithing residents are beginning to feel pretty pushed about this issue too!
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Japanesey
Unregistered User
Jul 27, 12:25
Comment: 12655

Well said Invereithing mum! Personally I am sick to the back teeth of Duloch residents claiming priority over every other area of the town. Cuts are happening everywhere and we all have to make sacrifices, regardless of how much tax we pay! Some of the comments above make me sick, especially the from the holier than thou brigade who claim to be of a higher standing than the rest of us..... get a grip!
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Alex White
Unregistered User
Jul 29, 16:22
Comment: 12708

As a mum of one of this year's Carnegie Primary, I'd like to pick up on a few points.

Firstly, I don't understand where most of this negativity is coming from. As a group, many parents were very distressed when they learned their children would not have a place at their local school but would have to be bussed 5 miles away. Thankfully, due to the hard work and efforts of teachers, staff, parents and children, the pupils of Carnegie Primary have had a fantastic first year. We don't consider ourselves any better than anyone else, and do not claim more than is due to us Japanesey - the reason we are having a new school built is simply because there is not enough school provision in what is an ever-growing area.

I'm sorry Inverkeithing mum has worries that the new Carnegie Primary will not be ready on time. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that this is the case. The council and contractors are aware that there is no possible way Inverkeithing Primary could house another year of our children and so the deadline is July 2011. We are using 4 classrooms in Inverkeithing Primary because the school was vastly undersubscribed - the closest school to our area with enough room to house our pupils. We are not using a designated music room - only 4 classrooms. If Inverkeithing were using this previously as a music room that's because it was a free room at the time. We hope to have resource rooms of this type in our new school, but if it becomes the case that it is required as a classroom then there is no option but to use it as such.

Any worries that parents had about children going to Inverkeithing were based on the fact it's 5 miles away, not any problems with the location. We're not snobs, and I don't know why it's assumed that we have a negative attitude towards Inverkeithing as a place.

I suspect that people who have nothing to do with this issue are putting their opinions forward in order to create problems between the Duloch and Inverkeithing communities. There is certainly no resentment or snobbery on our part and I'd like to think the communities can continue to share Inverkeithing Primary happily until Carnegie Primary School is ready for the August 2011 intake.
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g8080
Unregistered User
Aug 21, 22:45
Comment: 13156

as a mum of two duloch school pupils, i'd just like to say i think sibling priority should of been the best way forward. Hopefully when the new school is "eventually" built things will balance out and a strong new school community created. I do remember being asked to vote on the situation so it wasn't all down to the council, they allowed us to make a descision. So who voted for what??? And may i add who voted against the proposal by kingdom housing near sandpiper?
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g8080
Unregistered User
Aug 21, 23:10
Comment: 13158

i do agree with some people on here about the snobbish attitudes of some residents in duloch, especially the area that i used to live in that is why i mentioned about the voting against kingdom housings proposals of affordable housing in that area. I am now registered homeless because i had to leave my home due to domestic violence and have been living in refuge then with friends for over a year but my old neighbours ignore me now at the school. Oh well That's life.
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Alex White
Unregistered User
Aug 24, 22:46
Comment: 13201

Hi g8080,

The affordable housing at Sandpiper isn't going ahead because of land issues - not because of anyone voting. It will now be built at the area where Dunlin Drive meets Pittsburgh Drive.

I agree it might have made more sense to allow sibling priority for one more year at Duloch rather than parents having two children at two different schools for that year. The council only asked us to make a decision on the catchment area change - not the rules for admission.
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