Man starts online petition to demolish Broomhead flats

Siew Peng Lee • Published 17 Feb 2012 09:20 29 Comments

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A DUNFERMLINE resident has started an online petition calling for the decaying Broomhead flats to be demolished - although he doesn't live in the flats himself.

The three high-rise blocks were saved from demolition last month after councillors approved a £5.1million renovation plan to give the flats a facelift.

The revamp was the cheapest of five options considered - in comparison, demolishing the three blocks and building new ones containing 160 homes would have cost cash-strapped Fife Council £16million.

The renovation plans promise a further 30 years of use for the flats but were recently slated by a chartered surveyor, who called them "barely credible".

And now Damon Lee (31) has started a petition to overturn the council's decision.

IT co-ordinator Mr Lee explained, "I live and grew up in Dunfermline and these flats are synonymous with anti-social behaviour and being quite a violent area.

"It's only recently come to light that there are a lot more problems than that, not just with the behaviour but the buildings as well.

"It's the structural integrity - £5.1million is not a lot of money to spend on 200-odd flats to last another 30 years.

"I work closely with planners, surveyors and architects and some of them think Fife Council are not even going to get anywhere near 30 years for that price - five to 10 years maybe.

"The council's gone for the cheapest option simply because of the price and the climate.

"In the current climate we shouldn't spend too much but we've got to think about the bigger picture for Dunfermline."

The petition aims "not to oust people out of their homes under superficial reasoning, more to urge the council to reconsider its decision which appears to do little more than provide makeshift remedial work that would be of only a temporary nature".

It added the decision was "contrary to Dunfermline's vision of creating a thriving city centre with a refreshing and professional look for visitors and a safe and suitable housing solution for its inhabitants".

The petition also queries the number of households (31 of 216 flats) that responded to a consultation exercise on the future of the flats.

It states, "Essentially, this equates to only 14 per cent of the households within Broomhead Drive that a) care about what happens in their own housing estate and b) have an opinion about what actually happens to their own home.

"This figure leads to some head-scratching and cannot be indicative of the actual views of the inhabitants and surrounding area.

"Put this into perspective - if you were to receive a letter from your local council informing of a possibility of your home being demolished, would you respond?"

Mr Lee underlined the petition was not a "personal attack", saying he just wanted "a better Dunfermline".

He said, "The western side of Dunfermline is getting more and more refreshed.

"There's going to be a new Tesco, there's a new Carnegie Leisure Centre, the old Duracord building is hopefully going to be a new housing estate and commercial estate as well.

"There's Queen Anne High School up the road and there's talk about bringing the college into the centre of Dunfermline. We're going to have to do something about these flats.

"They're just not right for the area.

"When you look at what's happened with the flats in Kincardine and Sighthill in Edinburgh, Dunfermline would look a lot brighter without these flats."

However, Agnes Condie, chair of the Broomhead Drive Tenants and Residents' Association, brushed aside the petition's claims.

She said, "I can't see the council moving on that one. If that petition were to be successful it'd be putting people out of their homes.

"When we were talking about what would happen to Broomhead Drive, people wanted option one - they wanted the place done up.

"We have no problem with these flats, there are a lot of people up here and they like the flats. Give the flats a chance.

"We know there's a stigma up here and we don't want it anymore than anybody else.

"We're trying to remove it but we all have to live somewhere."

She added, "If the flats came down they'd have to build 160 units and that's not going to be enough to rehouse everybody."

Have your say. Post a comment on this article.

Pipzy89
1 post
Feb 17, 12:35
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For this to be a democratic decision as in elections there needs to be a marotiy turn out. The 31 out of 200+ is far from this.

The results are more flawed, I responded then moved out around a month later.

Recommend? Yes 8 No 3
ChuckD
64 posts
Feb 17, 13:57
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"They're just not right for the area."

Jeez.. that's what this story comes down to isn't it.

Recommend? Yes 11 No 3
DunfermlineEast
137 posts
Feb 17, 16:14
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"demolishing the three blocks and building new ones containing 160 homes would have cost cash-strapped Fife Council £16million"

But new homes are more readily let and command higher rents. They will also have lower maintenance costs over time and last longer than flats. Fife Council are not into long term planning are they?

Recommend? Yes 20 No 2
vinoboy35
70 posts
Feb 17, 21:27
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Problem seems to be a lack of housing to re-locate existing tenants and the knock on effect on Council waiting lists .Agree that refurbishment is not satisfactory and something has to change to make the flats a different and better place to live.However,lets not stigmatise all the folk that live there .

Recommend? Yes 10 No 3
kaka30
309 posts
Feb 18, 07:48
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I think we would all agree that Mr Lee has a valid point but the Council, just like the rest of us these days, cant spend money they dont have, its that simple.

Recommend? Yes 6 No 4
DunfermlineEast
137 posts
Feb 18, 08:46
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@vinoboy - who is stigmatising the residents? I do not see anyone doing that here.

@kaka30 - look at the bigger picture FFS. These flats are already 50 years old and they were built with inferior materials. The needs of the people designed to live in the flats in 1960 are different to those of today. They are difficult to let and there is a high turnover of lets. They cost loads to maintain and will cost millions just to keep ticking over. Knocking them down and replacing with flats and semi-detached houses makes better economic and social sense. The residents get accommodation better suited to their needs (who wants to be 80 on the 10th floor with the lift out? and with lower maintenance costs and an asset with long term lets, the council will lose less money over time)

Recommend? Yes 20 No 2
kaka30
309 posts
Feb 18, 11:49
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DunfermlineEast -

I agree with the need to pull them down, im just saying that in the present economic climate, with all the cuts etc, Fife Council obviously dont have the money for a project like that.

Im quite sure if a member of the Council were to come online, they would validate my point.

Recommend? Yes 6 No 1
Dare818
3 posts
Feb 19, 09:44
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Nice of the press to supply the link to the "online" application...

Recommend? Yes 5 No 0
DunfermlineEast
137 posts
Feb 19, 21:02
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@zingaro - Councils should be about long term planning as that is what affects peoples lives most. Austerity measures are needed as long term planning has not been in place for decades - I blame both The Conservative and Labour Parties for living off spend now pay back later. One day they knew that they would not be able to borrow anymore and that day has come and gone, this has meant that they need to reign in their wild spending and fanciful ideas as there are massive financial risks of borrowing more.

You should remember that benefits should be for short term help (a safety net) and not a lifestyle choice. Some people do abuse the system for their own gain/laziness and that has got to stop - they had it too good for too long.

Getting back to the article, long term vision must be to replace the aging and unpopular flats with low rise flats and houses. That is more sustainable in the long term.

Recommend? Yes 6 No 3
kaka30
309 posts
Feb 20, 10:19
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History has shown that World economies have peaks & troughs, i think we would all agree that we are closer to the trough at this time.

At the moment people are unwilling to spend money, the Council included, there is no confidence in the economy & because of this, austerity measures are required.

Until we get people back to work & the economy starts to change, everybody will be more careful with there money, wherever it comes from, this is why the Council are going for the cheaper short term option.

Recommend? Yes 0 No 0
LogicalRealist
3 posts
Feb 20, 10:51
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www.ipetitions.com/petition/demolish-broomhead-flats-dunfermline/signatures

Recommend? Yes 12 No 2
fee55uk
18 posts
Feb 20, 12:50
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And where do all the residents get decanted to?

Recommend? Yes 6 No 0
LogicalRealist
3 posts
Feb 20, 12:52
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Zinagro...I merely put a link to the petition and you attack me...?? I think you have issues!!! A Realist is person who tends to view or represent things as they really are, and Logic is something you do not possess!!

Recommend? Yes 5 No 0
DunfermlineEast
137 posts
Feb 20, 13:31
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@ Zingaro "My post was saying that the capitalist system DOESN'T permit long term planning DunfermlinEast [sic]. From fiscal year to fiscal year if you're lucky."

Quite correct the current system does not allow or at least promote long term planning. You could argue that businesses, especially large business are even worse as they use quarters and planning is skewed towards quarterly results. I do think that the council should be more forward planning as I have said above. I think that it will improve the housing departments long term budget and substantially improve residents lives if the flats are demolished and replaced with more suitable dwellings.

I disagree with you that that LogicalRealist is being a NAZI. All I see him doing is posting a petition to demolish the flats - what is wrong with that?

@fee - where do you put the current residents? They can start to build houses/flats in the land around the flats in the first instance.

Recommend? Yes 6 No 2
Calimero
68 posts
Feb 20, 13:45
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I used to feel uneasy and slightly scared every time I wend to visit my Gran in the Matthew Fyfe (the nursing home across the road). Normally in a hour of visiting her there would be a steady flow of police cars/vans being called to various incidents. I felt anxious about leaving my car in the nursing home carpark. The main problem I see with these flats is the drug users/dealers that live there. Where are they going to end up?

Will they end up turning another street in Dunfermline into the new Fraser Avenue?

Recommend? Yes 8 No 1
LogicalRealist
3 posts
Feb 20, 14:05
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@ Zingaro...you really do talk some amount of rubbish. I watched a programme the other week on internet "trolls", all I will say is it seems you possess a lot of the attributes, all you want is a reaction!! @ DunfermlineEast, thanks. That was all I was doing, as it took me a while to find it myself. And unfortunately I have now wasted too many minutes talking to that eegit!!

Recommend? Yes 7 No 2
BrownOwl
17 posts
Feb 20, 17:22
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I live just round the corner from these flats and have never had any bother at all with the residents. The place has a bit of a bad reputation but I think that's down to a minority and not all residents should be tarred with the same brush. Upgrading the flats might just give folk a bit more pride in the area and reduce the stigma. If the head of the residents' association is arguing that most people want to remain then why should someone who doesn't even live there get to dictate that people's homes should be demolished?

Recommend? Yes 10 No 4
DunfermlineEast
137 posts
Feb 20, 18:59
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"If the head of the residents' association is arguing that most people want to remain then why should someone who doesn't even live there get to dictate that people's homes should be demolished? "

They are council houses owned by us all, not private dwellings with owners. That makes us all stakeholders, so we have a right to comment.

Recommend? Yes 10 No 2
Kingrib
2 posts
Feb 20, 19:59
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Firstly, I agree with LogicalRealist that Zingaro is most definitely a troll, fact! Best to ignore all posts from he/she in the future!

Secondly, these flats are an eyesore, fact! There is a lot trouble surrounding these flats, fact! They are passed there use by date, fact! I am sure there are a lot of nice decent residents located within them but you cannot hide from the fact they are a hotspot for trouble(I actually had the pleasure of staying in one of them once and it was not a pleasant experience, without going into detail it was far from an uneventful evening). I am not saying that replacing them with houses would remove the problems but by screening the tenants properly for any possible future development for the sort of people who would take pride in their home you would surely reduce the risk of future problems.

The fact that most of the residents didn't even bother to respond to the petition speaks volumes in my opinion. If it was me that was facing being forced out of my home then I would most definitely make my point heard. The people who chose not to respond clearly do not care what happens to where they live!

I honestly feel that it would be the best solution for all parties for them to be knocked down.

Recommend? Yes 9 No 2
DunfermlineEast
137 posts
Feb 20, 22:30
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@zingaro - Triskell you are back under a new guise! Instead of insulting other people's comments you could try and offer solutions and not add problems.

Off topic but answering your question, what caused 'the crash', it was people's greed. People who work in banks greedy to make money without analyzing the risks, greedy people in government turning a blind eye to dodgy bank lending but happy to rake in the extra revenue, the government making the social security system too lax and too open to others greed (yes people living off benefits played a real part in the crash), trade unions greed for more and more money - even if it damaged companies: especially in the public sector played a large part by running up debt that was always unsustainable and catastrophic now.

The UK's problem is that almost nobody alive in here, certainly nobody of working age has EVER not had money from the government to supplement their income in any form. Free healthcare, free education, subsidised train and bus fares, guaranteed income ad nauseaum. If you knew that if you are out of work then the government will support you then there is ZERO INCENTIVE to work or do anything productive.

Look at the USA as they are still the top economy in the word. They do it through ingenuity and through their economy offering the incentive that anyone can go there, use whatever skills they have to sell their labour, intellectual capital, product(s) or service to anyone, for any price the market is willing to pay with no limit to how much you can make.

You get paid a wage for your labor and unless you provide labor you won't receive wages, with exceptions made for those simply unable to care for themselves or work, you are on your own - no work, no food. The Democrats in America thought this was "unfair". They didn't like that an individual made money through hard work and started social programs to make their society "more fair" which has resulted in 50% of Americans paying for services the other 50% receive it for free and this has inevitably led to an economic disaster. Unless things change then the US might end up like Greece.

The US was built on individuals being free to create or produce or provide a service for anything legal with the incentive being that there is unlimited wealth out there to be created. That system led to Coca-Cola, Microsoft, Dell, Apple, Ford, Levi's, Marlboro, Pepsi, McDonalds, IBM, Xerox, Chrysler, Disney and the list goes on and on. There are many more similar ideas out there yet to be developed.

Socialism is a disaster, so stop peddling a dead dinosaur Trislell/zingaro as we cannot afford it and it is getting boring.

Recommend? Yes 10 No 2
kaka30
309 posts
Feb 21, 07:41
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I think that regardless on our take on World Politics, its clear that if there was a referendum on whether Broomhead Flats should be demolished or not, the answer would probably be resounding YES.

Im also quite sure that the Councils stance would remain the same.

There is no political utopia out there, there never has been & there never will be.

Its just economic good times / bad times & we just need to get on with it.

Recommend? Yes 3 No 1
kaka30
309 posts
Feb 21, 08:35
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Zingaro says that KaKa30 has " learned how to behave & knows what to say "

You might be right but remember life is like a game, you make decisions, you take chances & you try to get more favourable odds.

I comment on here because i enjoy putting my point across & dont mind a wee debate.

In all honesty though, whether Broomhead Flats stay or go is way down in my priority list.

Recommend? Yes 1 No 1
Dunfy4Eva
2 posts
Feb 21, 12:33
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I think some of us are missing the point here - the whole point in this petition was to give Dunfermline a fresher and brighter look. I commend Mr Lee for taking these actions to actually stand up for what he believes in. Although the odds are stacked against him, it's not impossible to turn things around.

The flats are ugly and in a bad way. No one can deny this. Look at the new flats next to Broomhead...brand new and look brilliant. The houses up the road along Queen Anne Gate...only been up for about 6 years and look great also. The area is thriving it seems and these flats just don't fit in (again, no one can deny this!).

£5 million to refurb 200+ flats?????? You crazy!? With the amount of work needed it'll take 10 times that to bring these flats to a suitable and safe standard for "30 years". I read the article in the Press last month and thought "no way £5m will last 30 years!!".

Sign the petition if you haven't already, I have. For the future of Dunfermline.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/demolish-broomhead-flats-dunfermline/

Recommend? Yes 9 No 3
MrsScottsWeeLaddie
48 posts
Feb 23, 09:50
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Broomhead flats are awful, a rubbish place to live, an eye sore and an ugly example of bad planning left over from the past - do everyone a favour and knock them down, give the residents proper houses and get rid of this horrible tower block!

Recommend? Yes 5 No 3
jeanmetz
1 post
Feb 27, 14:06
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I lived there for 6 years in the early 70's and my mother stayed on for another 31 years after that. In 1969 it was a nice place to live, but it declined over the years to the point where it became an eyesore. I was relieved when my mother moved as it was not a safe place to live........................not just the buildings but some of the residents were scary!

I know the cost of demolition is horrendous compared to renovation,but I think the Council should be looking beyond a 30 year plan. What will happen then ? The cost of demolition will be even more.

Maybe it's better to demolish them now and create a new feeling to the area.

I can't answer the question about where existing residents should go................another decision for the Council, but it's a disgrace that the properties have detiorated to such a point. I hope the next buildings will be of better quality.

Recommend? Yes 3 No 2
DMcDonald
1 post
Mar 1, 16:27
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I Live in the flats and not everyone is the same, yeah you get the odd bad ones but you get that in every street all over the uk and nobody can say that you don't, there are

respectable familys that live in the flats. Once the refurbishment is finished the flats will look better and the council and other organisations are really trying to cut down on the anti-social behaviour that is at the flats. In My view i dont think that people that dont live in the flats or near dont have a say as people are Labelling everyone in the flats as the same and we clearly are not. I have a son that attends the bookbug sessions in the community flat and i attend the tenants and residents meetings every month. we are just like every normal street and Neighbourhood our street may look different but we are just like everyone else.

Recommend? Yes 3 No 3
miah49
1 post
Mar 6, 23:56
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As a resident at Broomhead I find it hard to believe that there are people that are so judgemental about where people live that they are willing to have me ousted from my home. The residents are willing to try to improve there living standards and quality of life, who wouldn't be willing to do this?. Negative comments about the residents is hurtful in the least and does nothing for an informed debate or the much sought after need for social inclusion of all members of our community. These are real peoples homes and lives that you are commenting on. I will agree with Mr Lee in that I found the consultation period between the residents and the council about the fate of the flats almost non exiistent. I responded to the consult and so did a good number of neighbours of mine so I dont know where the council got its numbers from, may be there was a cockup or they did not really get the answers they were after. Most annoyingly I found out the councils decision about what is happening to the flats, not by letter or response to the consult or from residence groups but from the local press. Mr Lee may well have known about the results before I did. Not withstanding that. this is my home and I will defend my right to live here.

Recommend? Yes 5 No 2
Kingrib
2 posts
Mar 9, 13:21
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As I have mentioned previously, I'm sure there are respectable law abiding citizens in the flats but that is far outweighed by the number of junkies, alchies and criminals(or all three) that roam the flats and surrounding area. It 'might' only be a minority but these are the people that everyone sees on a daily basis so therefore this is what sticks in people's minds when thinking about broomhead flats.

I don't want to go into detail but the amount of times residents or guests of broomhead flats have caused me bother in one way or another is almost a weekly occurrence.

Unfortunately, when you live in a high rise flat, you ar sharing your home with hundreds of other people and are tarred with the same brush. That's just the way it is.

Even without taking into account all of the above, these flats are an eyesore, that is a fact. They are horrible to look at and bring down the up and coming local area. But most importantly they are falling to bits, they are unsafe, why would anyone want to live in somewhere that is a possible hazard to their health? If it was me and I had the chance to me into a new flat or house somewhere or stay in these old crumbling flats I know what I would choose.

With regards to the point on who should be able to have their say, well I pay a lot of council and income tax so I think I have the right to say how I think it should be spent. How many of these flats are owned or the residents actually pay rent for never mind taxes? After all it's me the tax payer who will help fund whatever decision the council take.

Recommend? Yes 8 No 1
kizzsus62
1 post
Jan 28, 11:27
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I grew up in these flats from 1962 to 1982. I have no bad memories of that time it was a great playground. Yes they were built with inferior materials causing damp and the crumbling issues they have now. But I can still name at least 40 family's out of 71 from my block. The residents then used to sit out in the grounds in the summer on blankets, mums congregated in the wash houses and drying greens and the play park was never empty of kids. Unfortunately we do live in a different world where people use different substances to deal with their problems. The people who live there barely look at each other.

I recently returned to the flats to have a look and was appalled at the state of them. I am not disgusted with the people who live there. I feel for them ALL of them. It is the council I feel angry with. These blocks look like prisons. Every time any money has been spent on these buildings it is to the detriment Of the people living there. Neither wonder there are people there who don't give a damn or don't pay their way or are taking drugs etc.

The residents need to be encouraged to get involved and given something to make them feel proud of their achievements. I personally would love to get involved in that.

Recommend? Yes 0 No 0

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