What does Dunfermline have to offer?
Published 26 Jun 2012 16:30
41 Comments
"SO I'm back on the internet, still looking for Dunfermline's (obviously well-hidden) excitement and it looks like unless I want to go shopping or to the pub, I'm going to have to travel a bit."
Our new columnist Steve Ramsay reckons there isn't much to bring visitors and tourists to town but do you agree? Read his column in Thursday's Press and join the debate.
Have your say. Post a comment on this article.
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Dunfy92
43 posts
Jun 26, 19:24
Report commentTo be brutally honest, I wouldnt come here if I wasnt born and raised in the town. The Odeon/Bowling alley lesiure park etc is a different story. As much as people like to prattle on about the town's herritage (which, fair enough IS important) it doesnt appeal to the masses. As sad as it sounds it is commercialism that drives people anywhere. Thats why I still go to Edinburgh, Glasgow, Stirling and Livingston to buy some decent clothes and have a more pleasant day out.
I have friends in Edinburgh who only come to Dunfermline to use the mini adventure golf out at Duloch and who have been into the town only once for the football.
The fact is that Dunfermline is hugely lop-sided and the west side has nothing to attract people/trafic (and their money) from the motorway and dual carriageway junctions through the centre of the town.
I reckon once the current economic slump is dealt with, Dunfermline will spring into development mode and we will see some recovery of the local economy.
Recommend?
Yes 19
No 5
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kaka30
311 posts
Jun 26, 19:27
Report commentI realise Dunfermline could be a lot better but i feel it also has many plus points.
How many High Streets end with a Glen right in the Town Centre.
How many High Streets end with so much ancient Scottish History.
I read about many people getting more interested in whats happening in the Town Centre, shops , pubs etc, i honestly feel that in the next few years if the economy picks up, Dunfermline would be a great place for visitors.
Recommend? Yes 17
No 2
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topothehill
1 post
Jun 26, 20:00
Report commentWell there's certainly plenty of charity shops in the town.
Not to mention hairdressers - except on a Monday though as they're all out living it up every Sunday night!
Recommend? Yes 6
No 7
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DunfermlineEast
137 posts
Jun 27, 08:50
Report comment@kaka
How many High Streets end with a Glen right in the Town Centre.
Cannot think of many, but how many large towns do not have a centre worth visiting. I have been to Pittencrieff park many times more than the town centre. Only spending the odd £ on ice cream.
How many High Streets end with so much ancient Scottish History.
Apart from the High Streets in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee, Aberdeen, Inverness, Linlithgow, St.Andrews, Hawick, Stornaway, Lerwick, Dingwall, Lanark, Hamilton, Dunkeld, Arbroath, Stirling...etc etc...
Recommend? Yes 12
No 1
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B2theB
145 posts
Jun 27, 08:51
Report commentWhat does Dunfermline have to offer ?
Apart from the world's only pedestrianised road with more cars than people, the best point about Dunfermline is that it's only a short commute from some really nice places.
Recommend? Yes 26
No 2
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itsallwentpetetong2012
145 posts
Jun 27, 11:18
Report commentWhat does Dunfermline have to offer?
Amazing walk through the Glen,Being Close to Edinburgh!,Being Near to Aberdour!Having the Albrahama!Having the only Cinema in Fife!......Not a big list......
B2theB
I could not agree more with your comments that Dunfermline has the world's only pedestrianised road with more cars than people.
But hopefully the Council will put a stop to that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Dunfy92
Spot on with your comment below
The Odeon/Bowling alley lesiure park etc is a different story. As much as people like to prattle on about the town's herritage (which, fair enough IS important) it doesnt appeal to the masses. As sad as it sounds it is commercialism that drives people anywhere. Thats why I still go to Edinburgh, Glasgow, Stirling and Livingston to buy some decent clothes and have a more pleasant day out
I have noticed everyone above is saying about the Glen which is a nice walk but everywhere in Scotland has a park we need to do something with it to bring the masses in,the council has just spent millions doing the peacock rooms why for occasional visit to the Glen! If we just forward think and use the bottom right hand corner of the Pittencrief Park to copy the same idea as East Links Family Park(http://www.eastlinks.co.uk/)that would bring people into the center of Dunfermline,because i was young i used to brought to Dunfermline as Pittencrief Park had a Zoo....
The High Street is a mess but is slowly slowy improving but this will hopefully improve when the special 400 that where invited to the council meeting last night come up with idea's to improve the High Street and Dunfermline as a tourist destination.
We used to have alot of people come from Edinburgh and the surrounding area for Primark but that had died away now with Primark Edinburgh & Livingston opening up.
We could have a amazing High Street if we lowered the rates to fill the empty shops and filled the gap site that is the old coop building with a shopping plaza(links to Bruce Street) that would bring people down that end of the High Street because at the moment people get as far a Guildhall Street and turn around, we also need to get rid of all the cars on street and get rid of all the wee car parks and build one big multi-storey at Wilmur Drive(Close to High Street)so making easy walking access to the High Street.
We also need to get a Move on with the 2 big projects next to the High Street which is the Tesco project and Pilmuir works development which at the moment looks like a building site, we can t afford a another coop building disaster a massive blackhole in the center of Dunfermline.
Pilmuir
(http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Fife/article/20807/historic-dunfermline-industrial-buildings-to-become-an-urban-village.html)
Tesco
http://www.fifedirect.org.uk/news/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.display&objectid=169CFACC-CD6D-8F98-6C4E56336A0F91A1
We are also promised a museum for Dunfermline which looks really nice and cost alot of money but yet again no parking for it!
http://www.e-architect.co.uk/scotland/dunfermline_museum.htm
As a big town we should take advantage of what we have near,ie we have the Scotland's biggest music festival just 10 mins up the road every year but we don t take advantage of it by having linked events either in Sinclar Gardens or Pittencrief Park which could be a tourist attraction for the town.
We also have the Ryder Cup coming to the area soon in 2014 so that will bring loads of tourists into the area,so need to take advantage of this.
We also have the Fife Earth Project completed by then so another tourists attraction.
What does Dunfermline have to offer then not alot at the moment but come back in ten years when everything is built and there is better transport links to Edinburgh with the new bridge.
Score out of 10 for Tourist & Shopping Destination :- 4 out 10 Loads more improvement needed..........
Recommend? Yes 14
No 4
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DunfermlineEast
137 posts
Jun 27, 14:52
Report commentThe biggest asset in the town centre is the park or glen as some locals call it. But people visiting their do so for leisure, walking their dog, taking their kids to the playgrounds, taking in the views and lovely park. They are not their to shop. So we cannot use the park to woo shoppers. At the moment the shopping centre is awful and I would rather take the family a half hour drive to surrounding areas and visit shops there.
Tesco is not going to help, it is just a supermarket, not a shopping centre. We already have 4 of them within the area (Rosyth, Duloch, Aberdour Road and Dalgety Bay).
What the town centre needs is a large variety of shops. The High St is nice, the gap site is a problem but downmarket pubs, Charity shops and pawn shops offer little to most.
Car parking has to be free, at least during Christmas and other major shopping times. It costs a lot to run a car, pay for bus fare (and a bus takes far too long to get there), so free parking has to happen.
Get more people into the town via free parking, that will attract more retailers and that will entice even more shoppers. It was commented in a past story to integrate the Carnegie shopping area which will also help.
Recommend? Yes 13
No 2
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redrobin
285 posts
Jun 27, 16:47
Report commentlots of good points...but lots of typical dunfermline ignorance!....we /you cannot have it every way?.....bottom line....years of council inefficiency....but we voted for them.it is impossible to turn round years of self indulgence..let's face it oor Gordon did nought and where is he now?..apart from selling the gold eh?
Recommend? Yes 3
No 4
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char
131 posts
Jun 27, 23:58
Report commentComparing with Livingston is a hoot. Livingston has shops and little else. Livingston parking is 50p an hour and Dunfermline is something like a pound for 2...parking in Dunfermline is VERY cheap.
Comparing with Edinburgh is just silly too. It's 10x the size and the capital city. Parking in Edinburgh City Centre (currently like a bomb site) is £2.60 per hour! I live in Edinburgh and avoid the centre at all costs. Some great shops but a nightmare to get round and 2 horrible shopping centres.
There are many positives: 2 fantastic theatres, good live music venues, some good pubs and cafes, an increasing retail offering, 2 great parks, museums, an Abbey, Palace and lovely City Chambers.
On the negative: Dated public realm, ugly shop frontages on charity shops (charity shops can be desirable), poorly implemented pedestrianised areas, lack of sign posting to lower high street/Bridge Street/Glen, no apparent attempt to promote tourism, co-op gap site, poor linkages between Carnegie Drive retail park and High Street.
It's a real pity there isn't much for families in the centre except the Glen and theatres. A central cinema would've been great. Families and couples go for a drink/meal then onto cinema.
Overall though there is a lot of positives and some minor changes could really improve things. I certainly rate Dunfermline over the likes of Falkirk, Kirkcaldy and Livingston!
Recommend? Yes 13
No 5
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stormxxx
137 posts
Jun 28, 02:51
Report commentDunfermline's heritage is outstanding...that is all!! Folks used to come in bus loads to the ballroom aka 'Night Magic', Bachuus used to dj and had lodgings up Castleblair for employees. This town has nothing anymore to excite anyone from anywhere sadly. For many a year i vowed i would never leave my home town..not the case now im afraid.
Recommend? Yes 6
No 4
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kaka30
311 posts
Jun 28, 09:24
Report commentDunfermline East ;
I do realise that other places have parks & history etc but as ive said on here before, there is too much negativity about Dunfermline, from the very people that live here.
If people start to talk up the place , show a genuine interest in making the place better, then things will change, people will listen, people that are allready trying, will try harder because of the support.
Its very easy to sit back, criticise & do nothing. If the powers that be have an agenda to transform the Town Centre then offcourse we should voice our opinion but we should also encourage.
Recommend? Yes 9
No 3
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DunfermlineEast
137 posts
Jun 28, 09:36
Report comment@char
"Livingston has shops and little else." - True but it has shops people want to visit and spend money in. The new shopping centre is light and airy, the outlet mall is clean. Kingsgate is depressing and life sucking. It has the worlds slowest lift and little natural light.
"Livingston parking is 50p an hour and Dunfermline is something like a pound for 2...parking in Dunfermline is VERY cheap. It is cheaper than many places, but what is the point of wasting £1 on parking and not having a good shopping experience? There are no family restaurants, no decent shops, just a depressing shopping centre and a High street with small shops, cars trying to run you over in pedestrian walkways, people smoking right outside the front doors, chuggers. No thank you.
"Comparing with Edinburgh is just silly too. It's 10x the size and the capital city. Parking in Edinburgh City Centre (currently like a bomb site) is £2.60 per hour! I live in Edinburgh and avoid the centre at all costs. Some great shops but a nightmare to get round and 2 horrible shopping centres." Sky high parking costs and the tram fiasco have scared away shoppers from Edinburgh, hence the massive decline in Princess Street and Edinburgh shops in general. Most people go to the Gyle, Fort or other part of Edinburgh when they say going to Edinburgh to shop. All have free parking! Hint hint.
"an increasing retail offering" If by interesting you mean terrible to ghastly then yes.
"2 great parks, museums, an Abbey, Palace and lovely City Chambers."
How is that going to bring in shoppers and revive the town centre? The Glen is fantastic but as I said before, people go there to visit the park, not the town. The former abbey is fine and the Palace is a ruin and not worth visiting. Would be if it was restored.
I stick to my premise, Dunfermline needs to offer free parking. That can be its one attraction to shoppers.
Recommend? Yes 7
No 5
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char
131 posts
Jun 28, 12:34
Report commentDunfermlineEast, this is about the area as a whole rather than just shopping. And I said INCREASING retail offering, which is accurate.
How would you fill the budget hole left by free parking? The same place you'd find money to restore an ancient palace? You do realise howmany ruins there are in Scotland that attract tourists?
All High streets are suffering because of out of town developments, new towns with lax
controls and the recession. Perhaps businesses should contribute to offer free parking, but would this put traders off?
Dunfermline is a historic town with a lot to shout about. The retail offering is disappointing but better than many similar sized towns. Improving the public realm and offering incentives to independent retailers would help - not everyone wants to shop in the Gap outlet in Livingston!
Recommend? Yes 8
No 3
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RigPig
53 posts
Jun 28, 15:11
Report commentWhats funny is that advertised on this very web page is a garage encouraging me to go to Falkirk to buy a car AND another encouraging me to buy new tyres for my car in Tillicoultry. What is going on DP??
Recommend? Yes 6
No 0
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itsallwentpetetong2012
145 posts
Jun 28, 15:27
Report commentDunfermline East,Char,Kaka30 well said on some of your points but you all seem to arguing among yourself, no one wants to be negative about Dunfermline we all want it to improve but it is not going to improve if the council ect do not listen to people that care about improving Dunfermline as town.
1.We all agree that Dunfermline needs to sort out its parking and the cars on the High Street that should not be there......
There is a easy answer to the car parking problems build a multi-store in Walmer Drive is suits everyone its close to the town center and will help with parking for shows for the Albrahama and in future people visiting the new museum.Ban all cars from the High Street by installing retractable bollards at Douglas Street and also have set time for deliveries to shops etc.
2.I have noticed everyone above is saying about the Glen which is a nice walk but everywhere in Scotland has a park we need to do something with it to bring the masses in,the council has just spent millions doing the peacock rooms why for occasional visit to the Glen! If we just forward think and use the bottom right hand corner of the Pittencrief Park to copy the same idea as East Links Family Park(http://www.eastlinks.co.uk/)that would bring people into the center of Dunfermline,because i was young i used to brought to Dunfermline as Pittencrief Park had a Zoo....
3.The council needs to speak to the Landlords who own the empty buildings and get them to lower there rates so attracting new independents shops and mainstream ones as well.
4.We are not Livingston,Stirling,or Edinburgh but we all go to these places and we all decide to shop at these places why ? Is not because of the parking because in Edinburgh you will pay £10 parking city centre and Livingston and Stirling you pay about £5. The answer would be bigger variety of SHOPS and tourist destinations(except Livingston). The only reason that people recently where coming to shop in Dunfermline was that they did have a Primark in Edinburgh or Livingston and they now do,so we can't rely on this for people to now come to Dunfermline. Dunfermline East raised the good point about the shopping experience in Dunfermline being a negative one but this could improve if we had a better selection of shops in the Kingsgate and the High Street.Char also raised points about the High Street as well with dated public realm, ugly shop frontages on charity shops (charity shops can be desirable), poorly implemented pedestrianised areas, lack of sign posting to lower High Street/Bridge Street/Glen, no apparent attempt to promote tourism, co-op gap site, poor linkages between Carnegie Drive retail park and High Street.
Well after i had read the Dunfermline Press they where many issues raised by the selected 400 at there meeting on Tuesday night regarding improving the High Street signage for Tourist Attractions but we really only have 4 of them,The Abbey,The Glen,Abbot House and the palace but all are in easy walking distance of the High Street.
St Andrews seems to have the right idea with the mixture of big High Street shops and little independent ones but mixed together so not attracting all the customers to one area of there High Street and that what Dunfermline High Street needs to do.
If i was the council i would fill in the old coop site with a plaza of shops but have a link to Bruce Street.The Plaza could include a Zara,TK Maxx,Superdry,ect.
Bruce Street should be pedestrian so helping them attract shops or restaurants as that road is now dufunct with Tesco cutting off the top of that Street.
The Maygate part of Dunfermline Town centre is really nice part of the town centre but the council need to look at opening the museum in the building over from the library instead behind the library as far as the shops go there a lot of interdependent good shops down which we need more of to grow into there but spread into the disgrace which is Bridge Street and parts of Bruce Steet.
As i said above we need a really High Street brand leader to open up at that end of the High Street to attract business and intermix with the small independent shops.
Use a subway under Carnegie Drive to link Carnegie Retail Park and the Kingsgate Shopping Centre up also a link for additional car parking spaces which are free for 2 hours.
5.We also need to get a move on with the Urban Village that we have been promised long time ago with the new Tesco site as well so bring footfall to that end of Dunfermline.
6.We also need to come up with some parking for Carnegie Leisure Centre as there is no parking at the moment,maybe some parking on Campbell Street as there is waste land along that road that easily get turned into a car park for families and members of the public to use.
7.Make more use of Sinclar Gardens, have the children gala and fireworks there as it amazing park and does not get used and ie the band stand ect.
8.Better transport links to Fife Leisure Park ie. better bus system.
9.Better tourist information Boards around town that give more information about historical landmarks in Dunfermline.
In the comments above there is reference to out of town shopping centers but in Dunfermline we have only the one at Halbeath and you not going to go there for shopping unless you going food shopping or DIY or buying or a television, so as place to shop we have a advantage over places like Edinburgh example as they have the Fort Retail Park which has draw-en thousand away from Princess Street. We really just need to sort everything out because we are lucky that we have the Glen,The Abbey,The Palace and a up and coming High Street with a Shopping Centre with 10 minute of each other.
The council need to come up with a Think Tank that involves the public of Dunfermline how to improve the town for them by having survey on the High Street or article in the Dunfermline Press that relates to websites so that people can leave feedback ect on what they would like to see to improve Dunfermline as town.
Because if we don t sort this out now the eastern expansion is just going to get bigger and bigger and more and more people going to Edinburgh,Livingston and Stirling!.Time is ticking with 2014 nearly upon with the Ryder Cup at Gleneagles a massive tourist attraction coming near here.
Recommend? Yes 9
No 2
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maclam
317 posts
Jun 28, 19:18
Report commentas sinclair gardens is only the name for the roundabout , i doubt if there would be room to have the childrens gala on it .
lets just keep it in the glen and let the children have their procession down the high street
Recommend? Yes 7
No 0
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char
131 posts
Jun 28, 20:55
Report commentAgree with most of your points but more than 4 tourist attractions in the centre:
Pittencrieff Park (Glen)
Pittencrieff House
Canmore Tower
Abbott House
St Margarets Cave
City Chambers
Palace
Abbey
Plus the currently being developer Art Gallery and Museum.
Would you know any of these things existed going by the horrible, faded tourist information signs? New signs required and lets light up some of these sites. Glowing emblems to show pride in the town
Parking is definitely an issue but I wouldn't generally say to make it free. Keep it as low as is possible and create more of it. The issue is the Council can't afford to build more parking spaces AND reduce business rates. It would cost far too much.
It's great to see family friendly options like Wetherspoons and Grill48 opening but we need more of this. To get this we need to have people visiting the centre. To get people visiting the centre we need to make it attractive to retailers, residents, tourists and business. Would the likes of Zara and Superdry want to open on a horribly dated High Street filled with horrid A-board everywhere and cars zooming up and down? No. Get the bollards in, replace A-boards with lamp-post signage and sort out the paving!
Things like the Urban village need completed asap. Need to encourage more town-centre living. Anyone east of Dunfermline is almost as quick going to the Gyle and those on the west Stirling.
Recommend? Yes 9
No 1
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vinoboy35
70 posts
Jun 28, 21:57
Report commentSome great points and some crazy ones.Livingston - what a dreadful place. Also, how can Council be responsible for a market economy which dictates which shops open where .Yes business rates could be looked at but would you open a small shop in Dunfermline when fighting online shopping - world ahs changed and keeps changing.
I am less pessimistic than some on here , New Row seems to have improved with Reubens/Alhambra /Green Room restaurant ,now if only the Council would fix pavement and stop car parking .
Recommend? Yes 9
No 1
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TheDEXExpress
109 posts
Jun 28, 22:45
Report commentAgree with you char and Vinoboy. There's lots of good stuff about the centre of town already and more to come, as you say. Upping the level of tourism visitors could help to generate more and more viable food and drink venues, which in turn would help to attract more shoppers.
To do that, many of the changes to the public realm that folk above have mentioned are necessary. I still am amazed that anyone would think that turning the High Street into something looking like a longer version of the typical DEX driveway was going to enhance Scotland's ancient capital. It looks ridiculous and the volume of traffic using the street is also a nonsense. Likewise sticking up a sign saying 'Heritage Quarter' on the wall beside the Carnegie Birthplace. This ain't Disneyland.
Making getting to the centre of town as easy as possible is also vital. I didn't used to think that was important. However, I work near Shandwick Place in Edinburgh and it is terrifying how many businesses there are shutting down due to the street being closed by the latest tramworks. Buses go nowhere near, driving close is a nightmare and even walking about the place is tough enough. I talked to a shopowner there before the street was closed again recently and he said if it happened again, he'd lose so much business he'd have to close. Sure enough, there's now a To Let sign outside the shop. So decent, cheap parking and a pleasant pedestrian environment is possibly the best thing the Council could provide.
I know what you mean about the impact of the web on retail, vinoboy, but what seems to be happening nationally is the major retailers and small niche guys who give a quality service are doing OK, while it's the indifferent middle of the road chains that are struggling the most. I agree with you about New Row and that suggests that there is a market for quality here, particularly if the folk who prefer the Gyle and Livi can be persuaded to shop more locally. Fuel prices nowadays might help a bit there too.
I don't like these things becoming a political football, but I'm encouraged by the interest the new Council administration is taking. Now they need to deliver.
Recommend? Yes 6
No 2
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supersonic
222 posts
Jun 28, 22:55
Report commentRestaurants, leisure centres, cinema, pubs, gigs, historic buildings, cycle/walking routes, golf courses etc etc etc
Shops might not be to everyone's taste....travel then!
In my opinion dunfermline has loads of stuff.
Just need to get everyone off Facebook and go out and do something.
People are just lazy and negative!
Give yourselves a shake min!
Recommend? Yes 12
No 1
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char
131 posts
Jun 28, 23:51
Report commentVinoboy, I've said many times the Council needs to look at the New Row. When will Fife Council come down from their ivory towers in Glenrothes and do something. The people of Dunfermline are fed up being ignored in favour of a bland New Town. Why are our business rates higher? Why are our roads and pavements worse? Why are you selling out to developers without thinking about sustainability?
Recommend? Yes 6
No 1
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HughJeego
46 posts
Jun 29, 11:59
Report commentChar - "Livingston parking is 50p an hour and Dunfermline is something like a pound for 2...parking in Dunfermline is VERY cheap."
When I went to school, 50p for one hour and £1 for two hours were the same, but for you it means Dunfermline is cheaper...... remarkable!
Recommend? Yes 6
No 0
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GoWest
50 posts
Jun 29, 12:24
Report commentSome good comments on here.
@char- what ARE you on about? Have you seen the state of Glenrothes town centre??? Its declined faster than any of the big towns in Fife over the last few years, neglected by its landowners. The Council haven't spent any cash on Glenrothes since the GDC left? Other than being located in some ugly buildings in Glenrothes, what money has the Council invested in the town centre their? Answer- Sweet F A.
You should know that business rates are set by District valuers and controlled and collected by the Scottish Government- nothing to do with local authorities.
Recommend? Yes 1
No 0
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char
131 posts
Jun 29, 13:03
Report commentHugh, that's my point. People say Livi has cheap parking yet it's identical to Dunfermline!
GoWest, thanks for letting me know. I wasn't aware the rates weren't controlled by Fife Council. I'd argue roads and pavements are better maintained in Glenrothes than in Dunfermline though. That was certainly my experience when I was last there (Feb 2012). Making decisions in Central Fife about West Fife is a very poor idea though. Assumptions are made resulting in poor decisions being made.
Recommend? Yes 3
No 0
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GoWest
50 posts
Jun 29, 14:50
Report commentThe whole Livi debate is slightly pointless. Livingston has a larger population than Dunfermline for starters. For Dunfermline's centre to effectively compete with Livingston's, there would need to be a duplication of town centre retail floorspace and the creation of a lot of large modern, fit for purpose, new units. According to these studies Dunfermline town centre has almost half the floorspace that Livingston has. (Pages 112-113)
http://www.sesplan.gov.uk/assets/files/docs/proposed-plan/technical/Economy%20Technical%20Note%20Final.pdf
Its almost like saying Cowdenbeath town centre should have the same retailers and offering as Dunfermline.
Recommend? Yes 1
No 2
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james57
4 posts
Jun 29, 15:15
Report commentLivingston is a new town , i have exprtience of living in new towns and believe me they are not great place to live. Dunfermline is a fantstic place to live. it has history , charachter and most important it has a soul. Why do people of Dunfermline constantly knock the place instead of talking it up. Go to Livingstone for a day and what have you got ? SHOPS thats it and thats all. Go out and open your eyes to what this town hasto offer and be proud to come from the town.
Recommend? Yes 5
No 0
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itsallwentpetetong2012
145 posts
Jun 29, 17:28
Report commentIt looks like we have been here before :-Information posted on the web July 2010
Have a look
Overall, the masterplan is to be welcomed. The intention to pedestrianise much of Dunfermline City Centre is in line with best practice elsewhere and will encourage visitors. However, the Civic Square proposal is not appropriate for the City as it risks an adverse visual impact, is remote from the established High Street, and will not attract the magnitude of retailer needed to act as a catalyst for regeneration. Also, it is disappointing that pedestrianisation does not follow the axis of the High Street down to the Glen Gates. Moreover, the masterplan is not at the strategic scale necessary to guide the future development of Dunfermline.
Overview of Masterplan
The Masterplan considers a number of issues before laying out proposals.
• Issues to be addressed
• Opportunities to be built on
• Background Research
• Site Survey and Analysis
• Consultation
• Urban Design
• Movement Routes and Permeability
• Mixed Use Development
• Active Frontage
• Frontage Detailing
• Vehicle management and ‘Dotto Train’
• Streetscape Approach
• Public Realm Masterplan
This is comprehensive but with two major failings and a number of other flaws.
Firstly, there is little assessment of the potential visual impact on Dunfermline’s historic skyline and architecture. An assessment of key views from, and across, Dunfermline, would be expected to highlight areas where visual impact could be a potential concern. This is particularly the case for the Bus Station area which is very prominent on the skyline of the city.
Secondly, the consultation process only included Fife Council officers and members plus BIDS stakeholders. If a design is to be advanced, it would be expected to develop a solution with wider consultation, given the public interest and unique built heritage of Dunfermline. The proposal for a civic square does not seem to have been an urgent priority in the past, for example.
Moreover, the urban design work in terms of movement and permeability seems to focus upon the Kingsgate and does not recognize the attractor that is Pittencrieff Park. This would be expected to draw pedestrians down from the eastern High Street, particularly during summer months. The Heritage Quarter is also a key attraction. Development should therefore follow the axis of the High Street towards the Glen Gates.
The Urban Design section focuses upon Randolph Street/Queen Anne Street as an opportunity. The detail of this proposal is scrutinized later, but this area has little history of retailing within Dunfermline, other than the former Co-op. There is a strong case for maximizing linkage between the Kingsgate and Bus Station (and also the new Tesco) but this area does not lend itself well to primary retailing.
Finally, the pedestrianisation proposal is admirable but should include Bridge Street at least as far as the Glen Gates. There is no need to route traffic to the Glen Bridge this way as there is a well-established dual carriageway system to the east of the City.
Notwithstanding these negative points, the detailed traffic management proposals and consideration of materials are very positive, as is the overarching principle of pedestrianisation.
A Civic Square?
The need for a new civic square in Randolph Square is disputed. Dunfermline has a long heritage of public open space, and more use should be made of this. Indeed, the ‘father of modern town planning’ Sir Patrick Geddes put forward proposals for Pittencrieff Park, which included a civic space, at the beginning of the twentieth century, but his view was to balance heritage with regeneration, and this is the spirit that should be followed in this case.
There are a number of established civic spaces, whether formal or informal. The bulk of events take place throughout the Glen, including the Childrens Gala and the Bruce Festival. The Cenotaph is located to the south of the Monastery, within the Heritage Quarter. The pedestrianised precinct outside the Abbey has outstanding views across the Glen and West Fife. The traditional ‘city centre’ is the Cross at the northern end of Guildhall Street. The balcony of the City Chambers is the focus of the Childrens Gala procession. There is an outdoor pavilion within the Glen, and a bandstand within Queen Margaret Park. Finally, if there is a place which fits the general need for a civic space, it would be the Louise Carnegie gates at the bottom (west) of Bridge Street. The Glen Gates are identified as a ‘multi use public space’ in the Fife Urban Design Guide (page 17) and are the focus for events, including occasional Farmers Markets and Continental Markets.
A natural locus exists already, at the Louise Carnegie Gates, and this should be the centrepoint of any civic space proposal, and included in the pedestrianisation proposals. This also leads on to the issue of an ‘anchor retail’ presence.
Retailing
Dunfermline and Kirkcaldy have traditionally been the main retailing destinations in Fife. At one time, it was more common for shoppers to patronise Kirkcaldy than Edinburgh as an alternative to Dunfermline. A key feature of the retail heritage in Dunfermline was the Randolph Street Co-Op store. However, like many town centres, Dunfermline has declined as car-based out-of-centre shopping provision has increased, and the casualties of this decline include the Co-Op, which was once an anchor in Dunfermline, as well as shopping in general on the western High Street, dominated by charity shops and cash generator stores. Also, the small store formats of the Kingsgate Centre are likely to have been a deterrent to major retailers. Nevertheless, Fife Council has scored an enormous success in redeveloping the former Bus Station and attracting Debenhams to the Kingsgate, in a large-scale modern format store. This is the sort of shopping experience that needs to be attracted to the west of the High Street, to act as a counterbalance to the Kingsgate and also to continue the heritage of the former Co-Op store. Despite the downturn, there is significant retail capacity forecast for the Dunfermline area (according to the most recent Retail Capacity Study) and significant housing allocations in the Eastern Expansion area have already contributed to an upturn in the retail fortunes of Dunfermline. So, a major retail presence is required to ensure expenditure is attracted to the City Centre, rather than dissipated amongst out-of-centre retail parks.
There are few locations that could provide such a format. The new Tesco development to the north of the City Centre also has to be considered in any future relationship. The best location is perhaps the Bridge Street/ Glen Bridge car park, which covers a large area, behind an existing traditional frontage and with good access to the Glen Gates, to Bruce Street and to the new Tesco development, with a roadway under the Glen Bridge.
This would involve the reconfiguring or removal of car parking, but this could be retained under ground level or displaced northwards. It would also provide an opportunity to promote St Margaret’s Cave and to regenerate the Glen Bridge underpass and area, plus providing linkages to the new Tesco development to promote linked shopping trips. An arcade through to Bruce Street and the Bus Station could regenerate the Bruce Street area, which is potential
However, this is an outline proposal which would need to be consulted upon, potentially alongside other options. This leads on to a critique of the Randolph Square proposal.
Randolph Square
The Randolph Square retail-led mixed use proposal is centred upon a civic square at a similar elevation to the Bus Station and Queen Anne street, linked to the High Street by covered escalators and stepped access, and composed of retail units and restaurants of small to medium size with a ‘gallery’ or ‘arcade’ feel.
There are three main problems with this proposal.
Visual impact
The civic square will be at approximately the same level as Queen Anne Street, surrounded by buildings on three aspects. The indicative drawing , as viewed from the bus station, shows three levels above the square. The square itself is approximately two levels above the High Street, and on the southern frontage the structure is likely to extend to at least five floors above ground level, on a downward sloping street on which the frontage is typically two to three floors. The ‘A’ listed spire of the City Chambers is to the southwest of the development and is in fact shown as overlooking the civic square in the indicative drawing, which is quite difficult to envisage. There are four notable spires and towers of the skyline of Dunfermline – the Guildhall, the two towers of the Abbey and the spire of the City Chambers, with key views from the south and west in particular. It is difficult to envisage how such a proposed development can avoid having a visual impact on the skyline and setting of these structures, and there is not enough evidence in the masterplan to persuade otherwise, in particular no explicit assessment of visual impact.
Location
The site is removed from the High Street, in distance and in elevation, and centred around a bus station. Such locations do not make for good civic spaces and do not attract quality retail and food outlets. A comparator can be found in Kirkcaldy Bus Station. Although this is not a civic square, it is separated from Kirkcaldy High Street by distance and elevation, and accessed by two footways, also through a shopping centre. The shopping centre and especially the units fronting this Bus Station have a limited retail offer, in particular takeaway food and gambling. Aside from the visual impact, the elevation will discourage ascent from the High Street and may be exposed to prevailing westerly and northerly winds, and not a place where people may wish to linger, also because of the unattractive and busy bus station (which is well designed and functions well, but such vistas are not the best that Dunfermline has to offer) The modern mantra is ‘location, location, location’ and this site is one of the least attractive in Dunfermline City Centre, which perhaps answers the question as to why it remained undeveloped even in boom times and has never been mooted as a civic square. Consequently, market interest is likely to be limited and this undermines the nature of the proposal.
Potential Retail Offer
The location is poor because of separation, elevation and proximity to the Bus Station. This will deter retailers and restaurateurs. Moreover, the store format being promoted will not attract an ‘anchor’ retailer. The proposal is similar in some ways to the Multrees Walk development at Edinburgh Bus Station, which has attracted high-end retail and fashion in boutique-style shops. However, that development is anchored by an existing shopping centre and, in particular, a flagship Harvey Nichols department store. Without this sort of anchor, such a proposal is doomed from the outset. Moreover, there is significant retail capacity forecast for Dunfermline, and there is likely to be national multiple interest in a flagship development to mirror the Debenhams store in the Kingsgate. It is this magnitude of development which is required to encourage footfall down the length of the High Street, and the Randolph Square site will not deliver this. The Masterplan effectively admits to this eventuality, by including charity shops and ‘Cash Generator’ store in the indicative drawing for the High Street. The past development history of the proposed area should also be noted, in particular the Co-Op which remained unoccupied until replaced by the current Bus Station.
Other Issues
The consultants consider the possibility of street furniture and materials, including a bronze relief map of Dunfermline. If the gap site on the High Street is not filled, then this could be a good area for such a modest public realm focus, with heritage artwork promoting the history of Dunfermline, as a gateway to the Bus Station and as a vantage point to view street processions and events passing by the City Chambers, such as the Childrens’ Gala. If trade is drawn down the High Street then the area could benefit in time from al fresco dining opportunities and nearby cafes and restaurants.
There is no comment on the ‘Dotto Train’ which seems an interesting concept.
Phasing of Development
The consultants have costed and phased the development, and this provides a good indication of costs, options and timescale. However, greater priority should be given to the pedestrianisation of Bridge Street as Phase 1 or Phase 2.
An Alternative Approach
There is much to commend in this masterplan, in particular pedestrianisation and the attention to design and materials. However, the ‘civic square’ concept will not work for Dunfermline and should be reviewed, in particular the visual impact, location and retail offer. Alternatives should be investigated, in particular the Bridge Street/Glen Bridge car park as an opportunity for a flagship retail anchor, and the promotion of the Louise Carnegie Gates as a civic space at the end of a pedestrianised Bridge Street. This should be subject to far wider consultation, including with key heritage stakeholders (Historic Scotland and local heritage organizations) plus the general public, using visualizations and models to test options with the citizens of Dunfermline and West Fife. The scale of the Masterplan should also be revisited, to look wider at linkages with the new Tesco, the Heritage Quarter, Pittencrieff Park and towards the new community in the Eastern Expansion area.
IAIN PATON
BSc MSc MRTPI
Chartered Town Planner
Also the council have this masterplan as well(copy and paste and have a look, same ongoing problem since July 2010
Still nothing done
http://www.fife.gov.uk/publications/index.cfm?fuseaction=publication.pop&pubid=796FCA11-CC5C-575D-ACF4C8D7FE499346
Recommend? Yes 2
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itsallwentpetetong2012
145 posts
Jun 29, 19:52
Report commentChar,Go West, TheDEXExpress, vinoboy35, DunfermlineEast ,B2theB, kaka30 have a look at the link below, the guy who done the report for Fife Council is spot on with everything he says,no one would moan about Dunfermline or be negative about if all these points covered in the below report where carried, the report was available on line since last January.
It covers everything that everyone above has mentioned. but the council have had it for over a year so why don't they carry it out instead of having meeting with a selected 400 when this report says everything in black and white Street by Street of our High Street.
http://www.fife.gov.uk/publications/index.cfm?fuseaction=publication.pop&pubid=796FCA11-CC5C-575D-ACF4C8D7FE499346
(Copy and Paste the above link)
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bicyclebob
159 posts
Jun 29, 20:05
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vinoboy35
70 posts
Jun 29, 20:46
Report commenthi -I think the report says or committe report (?) that £11 milion is required to replace public realm/town centre surface.The previous administrattion built leisure centres and schools as their priority , in time of economic cutbacks where is the money coming from ? Council tax has been frozen and infra structure in GB is in terrible state - look on bright side we are not Greece ...........yet.
Also if everything mentioned by above erudite posters was completed would folk use the place or would out of town shopping plus internet still appeal ?
Recommend? Yes 0
No 2
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itsallwentpetetong2012
145 posts
Jun 30, 08:19
Report commentVinoboy i think it needs to be done or the town is going to get worse the council are about to spend 8 million on a museum next to a Abbot House.
I am sure there funds available in some town regeneration fund from the EU.
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******
Jun 30, 09:02
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GoWest
50 posts
Jun 30, 09:14
Report commentNo, there arent, if there was money im sure the Council will have spent it doing the works already. The museum is being part funded by other bodies too (Carnegie Trust, Heritage Lottery), not just the council. Looks like the updated plans for the museum have been altered, moving the main entrance to the side of the building. Original plans should the whole front of the vacant building next door to Carnegie Library opening like a book. No doubt cost was the stumbling block. There is only so much cash in the pot. Thats reality. It has to be spread accross other places too.
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itsallwentpetetong2012
145 posts
Jun 30, 10:31
Report commentWho is Go West do you work for the council ! I would rather have the whole street done than this museum built....
Looks like the street is going to suffer again with the council wasting more money
Recommend? Yes 1
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GoWest
50 posts
Jun 30, 10:44
Report commentWhos itsallwentpetetong2012? No I dont work for the Council but I know people who do, and I read alot of documents they produce and follow the press. I also have alot of experience in retailing and finance, as well as being a resident of Dunfermline. Maybe you dont think the museum is a priority, but those in power clearly do. A town with a proud heritage like Dunfermline SHOULD have excellent museum facilities. Something at least on par with the museum art gallery in Kirkcaldy.
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kaka30
311 posts
Jun 30, 15:15
Report commentjames57, a great post.
I dont know why people are mentioning Livi & Glenrothes, neither should be mentioned in the same breath as Dunfermline. If people want a varietry of shops then both Edinburgh & Glasgow are close by. Town Centres arent just about shops, there is so much more to it than that & i think with a bit of enthusiasm & obviousley investment Dunfermline could be right up there with the best of them.
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char
131 posts
Jun 30, 18:29
Report commentThe masterplan is £11-12m done in phases over a few years. This seems a lot but the reality is that it's not THAT much given the 8-900 million Fife Council spends annually. As mentioned, they can also apply for funding from elsewhere. They could work with the Alhambra on the New Row and introduce lit up advertising boards on the route to the venue, or perhaps a "Walk of fame" featuring the names of some of Dunfermline's big stars.
The key thing is that they need to act NOW. If they don't then expect more and more businesses to move out.
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******
Jul 1, 13:19
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itsallwentpetetong2012
145 posts
Jul 1, 13:23
Report commentKaka30,James 57,Go West,Char,TheDEXExpress,DunfermlineEast,Dunfy92
We all have Dunfermline best interests at heart but if the all the works where carried in the Masterplan Dunfermline High Street would be a miles better place to visit and the town centre would attract more visitors to the civic square and the munched improved high street with it cafe culture and better lighting would make it great environment to be in !
We all set up a perdition or a Facebook campaign to get the improvement done by the council or we all going to be in the sameplace moaning about the same things this time next year.
http://www.fife.gov.uk/publications/index.cfm?fuseaction=publication.pop&pubid=796FCA11-CC5C-575D-ACF4C8D7FE499346
Recommend? Yes 3
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williemdp
1 post
Jul 1, 20:50
Report commentWhat has happened in Dunfermline? Who is in charge of the roads? The planning department has gone mad. Does the west of Dunfermline not exist anymore? Should we just construct a bypass and be done with Dunfermline. The new Tesco store approved in town centre, causes main arterial road to disappear. William Street closed for six months. Please stop constructing new speed bumps everywhere, just a thought maybe we could use the material to repair the potholes everywhere. Please Please Please could we get someone on the planning department who understands road traffic, and just a thought who actually knows the area. God knows what will happen to our road infrastructure should the traffic lights go out, or Dunfermline council looking for a permanent replacement for Christmas lights. Born and bred in Dunfermline but seriously considering leaving, what a joke, it is little wonder no one wants to come here, I don’t wish to appear cynical but maybe that is what Fife council wants, close St. Margaret’s Hospital by stealth and ruin our town centre and road infrastructure.
Recommend? Yes 2
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char
131 posts
Jul 1, 22:30
Report commentQMH is run by NHS Fife, not Fife Council. The rest is down to them though.
The Civic Square in the Masterplan is severely flawed. It would be dark and become a waiting area for the bus station. The planned units were also too small and would end up being taken up by Subway, Burger King etc. A better plan would be to develop a mixture of shops, flats and offices on the land. Get people living in the town.
Recommend? Yes 2
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GoWest
50 posts
Jul 2, 00:45
Report comment@williemdp what has the planning dept got to do with roads?? Transport engineers build and design roads, not planners.
@itsallwentpetetong2012 i agree, but as i said the council has a shrinking budget thats stretched as it is. If there was cash the works would have been carried out already. Im sure the street works will be high on the priority list. The government granted cash last year which part funded improvements to Lochgelly and Kirkcaldy. Dunfermline could get some cash if the government launch the town centre regeneration fund again. Problem is there are other places in far greater need than Dunfermline, and cash will only go so far.
Recommend? Yes 3
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char
131 posts
Jul 2, 21:03
Report commentNo money yet the councils responsible for similar sized towns Stirling, Inverness, Perth, Paisley and even Kirkcaldy have been improved. Why not Dunfermline? Arguably the finest town in the region after St Andrews but Fife Council have historically ignored or made poor decisions about the High Street.
Great, have consultations, but how many times do people have to say the same things?!
Recommend? Yes 2
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