Battle to build Rosyth park and choose

Published: 12 Jan 2013 09:0027 comments

THERE are plans to build a 500-space park and choose in Rosyth - on one of Scotland's most famous battlefields.

The site to the left of the rail line earmarked for the park and choose facility.

The site to the left of the rail line earmarked for the park and choose facility.

Fife Council said the multi-million pound interchange would be north of the train station and offer commuters the chance to catch a bus or train.

Plans include 500 car parking spaces (including 24 disabled spaces), a bus turning area and bus stances, drop-off facilities, a taxi rank and secure cycle parking.

But the parcel of grassland in question, between the railway line and the A823(M) spur, was also part of the site of the Battle of Pitreavie in 1651.

Believed to be one of the key Scottish battles in Britain's 17th Century Civil War (or War of the three Kingdoms as it is otherwise known), it was a decisive clash in Oliver Cromwell's attempts to quell unrest north of the border.

Historic Scotland included the site on the Inventory of Historic Battlefields, which lists Scotland's 28 most important battlefields, but have not objected to the council's plans.

A council report confirmed, "Inclusion of a site within the battlefield inventory does not confer any new legal restrictions on the area identified by the inventory maps.

"Instead, Historic Scotland assumes that inventory sites will be given more particular consideration in the planning process."

It added, "Although Historic Scotland has offered no objection to the proposals, given the status of the site in the inventory and the potential for some archaeological finds, it is also considered appropriate to require an updated interpretation board to be erected as part of the development through a planning condition."

Councillors at yesterday's City of Dunfermline area committee were also told that "it is considered that there is a justifiable need for this facility to be developed on the site as proposed, even if it is in a countryside location".

Park and choose is designed to cut traffic congestion by encouraging drivers to opt for public transport or car sharing and, unlike the £10 million park and choose facility currently being built at Halbeath, the Rosyth site does include the option of getting on the train.

The report explained, "Cars and buses will enter and leave the site via a three-arm signalised junction on the B980 Queensferry Road.

"This will be located north of the railway line and south of the B980 / A823 (M) interchange.

"Cyclists will enter the site from the north via a cycle track leading from the flyover across the A823 (M).

"Rail users will be able to directly access the site via a ramped access that will link the park and choose facility with the southbound platform, while a pedestrian footbridge will be constructed wholly within the existing station offering further access to the northbound platform."

The council said some earthworks would be required to flatten the land and there would be space for future expansion if it proved to be a success.

The report pointed out that the Scottish Government highlighted the Pitreavie/Rosyth area for a park and choose in their Strategic Transport Projects Review in 2009.

Alternative sites next to Dunfermline Queen Margaret, Dunfermline Town and Inverkeithing rail stations were all looked at by the council and discarded as unsuitable.

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  • lewrssll
    19 posts
    Jan 12, 09:42
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    Fife council have no morals... they get dunfermline city center wrong in so many ways, then the transport hub at halbeith now this!!! Who is getting the secret pay outs!

    Recommend?   Yes 24     No 3

  • fifechap
    45 posts
    Jan 12, 09:56
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    the park and ride at Inverkeithing is hardly ever full,

    Recommend?   Yes 24     No 5

  • fatweegee
    9 posts
    Jan 12, 10:17
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    What is the point in spending £10m on a 'Park and Choose' facility at Halbeath with no option of a rail connection? The rail line runs right through the site but no halt - 'park and Choose' - Choose what exactly?

    Recommend?   Yes 25     No 1

  • torryburnlass
    1 post
    Jan 12, 10:24
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    Do the centre for Battlefield Archaeology know of this? They do now!

    Recommend?   Yes 16     No 1

  • char
    238 posts
    Jan 12, 13:06
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    Fairly obvious plan here. Build all these P&R sites. People buy season tickets and become accustomed to using public transport. Then start charging a quid a day to park there. No doubt the current Rosyth car park will be sold and developed so no going back. FC won't do something if there's nothing in it for them.

    Recommend?   Yes 17     No 2

  • redrobin
    333 posts
    Jan 12, 15:59
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    Well, I guess that confirms that Fife Council is on a different planet from us.

    Recommend?   Yes 15     No 1

  • TheDEXExpress
    152 posts
    Jan 13, 13:48
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    I have no problem with them building something on this site and it is all very well intentioned, I'm sure. But the battlefield chat is a sideshow. The real issue is that this is simply the wrong site for a park and choose.

    If there were latent demand for another 500 parking spaces on this site, one would expect the existing car park at Rosyth to be overflowing on a daily basis. This is not the case by a very long chalk. By contrast, there is a station in the area where the car parks are stowed out every day and where there is an issue with on-street parking. That station is Inverkeithing.

    If you asked folk who actually travel to work in Edinburgh - which is what this facility is mainly catering for - they would say that the best place for a park and choose would be on waste land north of Inverkeithing station. Why? Because every train going south across the bridge stops at Inverkeithing. Furthermore, a number are express trains that do not stop elsewhere in West Fife or between Inverkeithing and Haymarket. There is unrivalled choice, much of which gets you into the centre of Edinburgh very quickly. Equally, it would be just as easy to reroute express buses from Dunfermline or the M90 to a park and choose facility in Inverkeithing as to a facility at Rosyth. Taken togather, the rail and bus options at an Inverkeithing site would offer a very wide range of transport options that could well be attractive enough to persuade many people to use public transport rather than the car for their commute. I had understood that that was the point of all this.

    Rosyth would not have these advantages and I do not believe that the proposed extra parking spaces will generate the same benefits as a result. More likely is that the site will become a state-of-the-art after hours skateboarding and BMX arena. While that might prove popular with young folk, and would be something positive to grasp among the wreckage of another white elephant, I am not sure it would be a prudent use of a substantial sum of public money.

    Unfortunately, the people deciding this are not those who travel south every day, and who therefore have a good idea what would change their behaviour. Instead, it is councillors, most if not all of whom neither travel the route daily nor will they challenge what the 'experts' in the transport department tell them, and those 'experts' themselves. As has been pointed out above, these are the people who brought us the tremendous success represented by the new central Dunfermline road system. Transport officials across the country also appear to be particulartly susceptible to faddism. One minute speed bumps are in fashion, so we spend tons of cash installing them. Five minutes later they are out of fashion, so we spend piles of cash removing them. Park and choose is the flavour of the month, so let's have lots of them. Doesn't matter where they are or whether they'll actually change drivers' behaviour, let's just splash some public money around and tell each other it's a great success.

    I do not believe that this project is going to achieve its goals and scarce public money is going to be wasted proving this point. Most people with any common sense would likely take the same view. Who in the Council is going to stand up and say that they will take responsibility if and when it fails?

    Recommend?   Yes 37     No 1

  • TheDEXExpress
    152 posts
    Jan 13, 13:55
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    And I wonder whether they have thought about what impact a signalised junction on the B980 is going to have on the road network in the area at te times when most users are going to access it. The Sky roundabout at the end of the A823 (M) is already very congested at peak times. Even if designed with some care - which is in any case unlikely, given past experience of these guys - it is going to make this congestion worse. As a result, it will mean that it'll take longer for potential patrons of the park and choose to access the site by car, which in turn will make them think twice before using it at all, even before they think about whether the range of transport options from the site are worth the hassle in the first place.

    You could not make it up.

    Recommend?   Yes 19     No 1

  • inverboy
    2 posts
    Jan 13, 14:56
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    dexexpress

    i take it from your username thats where you bide,

    are you just like fc , making plans for inverkeithing without taking the locals thoughts WE DONT WANT ANY MORE PARK AND RIDES

    Recommend?   Yes 10     No 12

  • TheDEXExpress
    152 posts
    Jan 13, 15:23
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    I don't live in the DEX. I just like the name.

    The key point I am making is that FC should do exactly as you suggest and talk to real people. They may find that something like this at Inverkeithing isn't going to work either, who knows? I am just saying that if FC want to spend money on a park and ride, they should spend it on a site where it is actually going to be used. Would you prefer more people parking in your street instead? It seems to me that that is something that needs to be dealt with and the Rosyth option is not going to help with that.

    I am not talking about the area of open land at Stephen's Drive, for example. There is land far away from residential areas that is north of Inverkeithing station and the A921. It is within easy walking distance of the station via the existing car park path under the road and could potentially be used for a park and ride and which could be accessed through existing industrial areas.

    Recommend?   Yes 11     No 2

  • inverboy
    2 posts
    Jan 13, 16:41
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    the roads out at burnside are busy enough at peak times this would cause more delay trying to get out of inverkeithing and if they build the extra 450 houses that are in the plans. as for parking in my street theres also residents parking in some of inverkeithing .why not build a multi storey on one of the existing car parks

    Recommend?   Yes 7     No 1

  • char
    238 posts
    Jan 13, 17:06
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    Bear in mind the grand plan is to build on the west side of Dunfermline from the "Sky Roundabout" all the way up the back of Pitreavie. A new halt is planned between Dunfermline Town and Rosyth.

    If FC have a load of tarmac that they need rid of then there's plenty of holes!

    Recommend?   Yes 10     No 1

  • redrobin
    333 posts
    Jan 13, 19:00
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    Good point Char. As long as they dig a hole big enough for FC to be buried in with enough tarmac on top

    Recommend?   Yes 3     No 3

  • itsallwentpetetong2012
    196 posts
    Jan 13, 21:28
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    The best place for the park and choose is Inverkeithing at the North Road or the field opposite Inverkeithing High School which has a minimal walk to the train station and good access to A921 this would better than Rosyth which would be a massive white elephant,I agree with DEX Express comments about Inverkeithing being the busier train station because of the more trains.I also think that the Halbeath site should have a train stop as well as this would help all train stations in West Fife to bring more people to park instead of being a 10 million waste of money..............

    Recommend?   Yes 16     No 10

  • shurely72
    1117 posts
    Jan 14, 17:56
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    all talk of carparks,roads etc is missing the point. This is a heritage site. 2000 men lost their lives on this field are any buried there? These men were as much soldiers fighting against the tyranny of Oliver cromwell to keep their country(scotland) free as soldiers now fight against tyranny.they deserve the same respect. Our heritage should be protected too much is being allowed to disappear

    Recommend?   Yes 17     No 4

  • ItsErnie
    464 posts
    Jan 14, 23:12
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    I'd say that was a pointless argument Shurely72. Almost noone knew about it until the Press mentioned it. Why would you call an empty green field 'heritage'? If you follow that course there are literally thousands of fields around where someone once fought for something!

    Move on!

    Recommend?   Yes 3     No 9

  • SmarmyGit
    474 posts
    Jan 15, 13:50
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    Ye ken, I try and defend the cooncil at the best o times as it does do alot of good work, but this one I just canny dee it........

    Loony decision

    Recommend?   Yes 4     No 1

  • noneoftheabove
    3 posts
    Jan 15, 13:55
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    I have found that FC are by far the best council you can get to waste your money, they may have paid lip service by listening to your arguments but only treat those who voted them in with nothing but contempt. They are only councilors because no one else would give them a job because their inability to get ANYTHING right, Now bearing that in mind do we really think they are going to seriously listen to us now......I THINK NOT. being an MP or councilor must be one of the few jobs in the world where you can consistently cock it up on a massive scale and still keep your job.

    Recommend?   Yes 4     No 1

  • shurely72
    1117 posts
    Jan 15, 14:45
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    itsrnie. And how do you know no one knew of the battle there? Have you asked everyone? it may be a green field to you but so many places like that are just disappearing ? Would you say the same about glencoe? is it just a field and hills? Or the field at flanders? I for one knew about the battle at pitreavie years ago thanks to teachers at camdean school.i have" moved on "but think it is interesting for future generations to know these things. Should we move on and forget ww1 and 2?

    Recommend?   Yes 7     No 5

  • ItsErnie
    464 posts
    Jan 15, 15:05
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    But that's the very point I'm making! WW1 and WW2 covered almost the whole of Europe and further afield. Should we restrict building on all of that land? Remember the events of course but the sites themselves are not (IMHO) heritage.

    Recommend?   Yes 5     No 6

  • shurely72
    1117 posts
    Jan 15, 18:08
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    you are entitlled to your point of view itsernie but there will soon be no green fields around here at all.if declaring it a heritage sight stops building on it i for one am all for it. As for building carparks in inverkeithing the same is happening there especially if the new houses proposed between inverkeithing and dalgety bay go ahead, instead of wasting money on carparks fc need to repair exsisting roads and pavements.The amount of uneven paving stones and cobbles especially in guilldhall street are getting dangerous.

    Recommend?   Yes 3     No 3

  • Cenobite
    39 posts
    Jan 15, 18:44
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    What a Hideous attitude towards this part of Fifes history,heritage and culture...from the planners to the posters on here.

    This will bring the tourists in from Rosyth and Edinburgh ports in there droves.....great photos of a carpark! I can wait to see the leaflets from VisitScotland.

    Finally,one thing Inverkeithing doesnt need is another carpark.

    Recommend?   Yes 7     No 2

  • Cenobite
    39 posts
    Jan 15, 18:45
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    *can't oops!

    Recommend?   Yes 1     No 0

  • itsallwentpetetong2012
    196 posts
    Jan 15, 22:27
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    Cenobite oooohhh yes it does building a park and choose in Rosyth would be a waste of money when all the travelling public use Inverkeithing Train Station because there are more trains going through that station...Not Rosyth on the Fife Circle...Cheeso the council don't have money to waste and its the Station Fund that is paying for the new park and choose.More and more people are going to use the train to go to work but we need common sense built the park and choose where all the people use the trains the most.

    Recommend?   Yes 1     No 4

  • shurely72
    1117 posts
    Jan 15, 22:44
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    well said cenobite. leave the field and Inverkeithing alone. what about building a park and ride near dalgetty railway station. or one at duloch connecting to other bus services as the one planned for rosyth doesnt allow access to the station so you wont need that at duloch.or as it is called dex( a stupid name)

    Recommend?   Yes 8     No 4

  • freescot
    151 posts
    Jan 16, 21:46
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    this all we need another park and ride or whatever they want to call it have they not wasted enough money on these things still i am sure stagecoach will be rubbing there hands at all the extra subsidies they will get

    Recommend?   Yes 1     No 0

  • HughJeego
    74 posts
    Jan 18, 12:33
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    I think DEXexpress has said it all.

    However, I have one thing to add;500 parking spaces means 500 additional passengers wanting to use either Scotrail or Stagecoach services.

    It would be interesting to hear if FC has started discussing this increased capacity requirement with either operator?

    Recommend?   Yes 3     No 2